Announcer (00:01):

Welcome to practice Ooma, where doctors and practice owners share business, lifestyle and marketing stories all while guiding you to more patients. Here's your host, Zach Greenfield.

Zack G. (00:14):

Welcome back folks to practice O matic. I'm your host, Zach Greenfield. And today with us, we have Dr. Cindy tri Cindy has been a relief veterinarian with over 17 years of small animal practice experience in four states, including over 50 plus unique general practices, emergency practices and shelter clinic clinics, Dr. Cindy tri finds, great satisfaction, helping other vets take those well deserved breaks. So timely these days too, in 2018, Cindy found relief Rover, which is a platform connecting relief, vets to jobs, each other resources and service providers who can help them grow their businesses. In addition to the relief practice, Cindy is a consultant speaker, entrepreneur, and author. She's the co-founder of a clothing company called kick it pajamas, which you can find at www.Kickitpajamas.com that designs pajamas and other accessories for women battling cancer following graduation in 2004 from UC Davis school of veterinary medicine, Cindy intern at the Florida veterinary specialist, which is now blue Pearl veterinary partners in Tampa, Florida in her spare time, she loves hanging out with her surfer husband and her two long and low dogs, which I'm assuming are some doc hounds or something and scheming travel plans. Welcome Cindy to somatic. So happy to have you on the show today.

Dr. Cindy Trice (01:45):

Thank you for having me, Zach.

Zack G. (01:47):

Yeah. So let's just kind of start at the beginning. And let me ask you a little bit about how did you fall into being a relief vet? Like what was the first gig like and what did that feel like to you?

Dr. Cindy Trice (02:03):

Yeah, so I, I had gone into an right after graduation. I went to an internship, um, ended up getting sick, dropping out and working in a general practice for a year and a half. And it always bugged me that didn't finished the internship. So I went back, um, did it again, or finished it. And then, then I found in a place where I needed to decide, do I go back to the practice where I was before, or do I look around? And I really liked the practice where I was, but I wanted to see what other people were doing and what other practices were like. So I started doing relief work really kind of as a way, just to see what else was out there. Um, I didn't really think of my, as a business to business service provider or that this would be a career choice. It was really just to kind of look around and that was how it

Zack G. (02:53):

Started. And, and so did you, I mean, for the folks that don't know, how did you go about it? Did you just kind of throw yourself out there, like, Hey, I'll come in and pinch it for you? Or how, how was that? I mean, cuz there was nothing formal at that point you were just kind of doing organically. Right. So what was that process like?

Dr. Cindy Trice (03:11):

So in the beginning I was well connected to that veterinary community from having been there, um, as a I more practitioner in the community. So I really just told my friends, you know, and at our local veterinary meetings, I'd say, Hey, if anyone needs help, um, I would, that's how I did it. I wasn't super formal about it. But then I started, um, sending out my resume and I made little business cards and I sent them to various practices. Yeah. And I would go in and visit. But the real shift happened when my husband took a job teaching at a photography school in Missoula, Montana. So we were gonna live there, um, for six months out of the year and we did this three years in a row. So I was going into a whole community at where I didn't know anybody. Okay. And so then I formalized it and I started to think of myself as a business to business service provider. Oh, okay. And I sent out the resumes, the marketing letters, and then I called them, I followed up with phone calls and I said, Hey, can I come visit your clinic? And the amazing thing. Um, and this was back in 2008 or nine, 2009. I think the amazing thing was that even though they'd never met me, they, they would just call and say, can you work these days? The, the need for relief,

Zack G. (04:31):

You struck, you struck a vein. It sounds like, huh?

Dr. Cindy Trice (04:34):

Totally. Totally. And I was the only, I was the only, um, show in town as far as being a relief veterinarian. Right. And so there was more work than I knew what to do with

Zack G. (04:46):

Right. Once, once you kind of figured out that there was, you could tap into that. Huh. And so, yeah. Okay. So then how does it, how does it grow from there where you're starting to engage other folks that want to play that role as well? So

Dr. Cindy Trice (04:58):

It took, it took quite a while. So the first shift was thinking of myself as a business to business service provider and, and changing this mindset to, to realizing that the, the practice is my client and that my job is to come in, take care of their business, um, support the pet owners bond to their practice. And once I had that mindset shift, I really found that I enjoy that part of it, that I enjoyed helping my colleagues and it, it sort of changed the game for me. So I went along that way for years and I used it as a way to, um, well, I, I always call myself, I'm a professional sampler. I kind of love to go in and sort of sample a clinic, see what it's like and then go to another one. And, um, I get bored if I have to do GP all the time, I get bored if I have to do ER all the time or shelter.

Dr. Cindy Trice (05:48):

So I get to do a little bit of all of it. So I went along in, in that way, but I started noticing that there was no one out in the veterinary industry that was talking to relief professionals. There's no American association of relief professionals. There's, there's an American association of every other kind of veterinarian under the sun. Okay. Um, but not relief. So there was no real community and no real support and no place where could go to get resources on how we could be better business to business service providers and grow our businesses. Cuz we're basically one person businesses. Right. So I, I saw a dearth of information out there for us and I took it upon myself to, um, form my own community and that became a relief over.

Zack G. (06:38):

All right. So then fast forward, where are we at today with relief of Rover?

Dr. Cindy Trice (06:42):

So what relief Rover is, is it's a, it's a platform for connecting relief professionals, mostly veterinarians, but we also have technicians on the site as well. Now we're growing that part of our membership, connecting them to each other for community purposes, but also them to jobs, connecting 'em to resources, to discounts, um, and to service providers that can help them grow their businesses. I always tell people, we are not a staffing agency. We're more like a dating site.

Zack G. (07:12):

Oh, I like that. I like that. I like that.

Dr. Cindy Trice (07:15):

We give people both hospitals and relief professionals, an opportunity to, um, present themselves and say, Hey, I'm, you know, open for business and I'd love to meet you and build a relationship.

Zack G. (07:29):

So you gotta have a good profile pick. Is that how it works?

Dr. Cindy Trice (07:32):

That's right. Yeah. Swipe right. Swipe left. Swipe left.

Zack G. (07:37):

Well, but that I'd be it. I like that because it's more, it's, you know, a staffing service is such a, uh, like, I mean, to me it just feels so like kind of numbers based, but it sounds like you created something that's a little bit more human and, and engaging in that. You know, I think that, and also the way that you, you know, what you call the company and that relief, and I think that's no secret in this industry that there's a lot of burnout and there's a lot of, um, mental health issues and there's a lot of emotional stress that vets endure in the process of doing the job. And it's no surprise that they need to take some time off. And at the same time, it's very difficult because demand is so high, especially right now with this sort of pandemic pet boom that have happened. And it seems like it's so timely, but also important that you're you created this resource to give folks that are, you know, kind of at the red line, a chance to take a breather without impacting how the practice services, their clients necessarily in a, you know, in a negative way.

Dr. Cindy Trice (08:58):

Absolutely. And, and I like what you said about, you know, that, that you notice we're trying to bring the humanity to it because I really feel that this re relief practice isn't just about putting a warm body into a shift. It is about building relat relationships because as I keep saying, relief professionals are business to business service providers and they bring a unique set of skills to the table. And it's real important for hospitals to form relationships with relief professionals because every hospital is going to need a relief veterinarian at some point or another, whether that's for, um, maternity leave or paternity leave or, um, someone's leaving for continuing education or vacation, or like you, you know, alluded to burnout. If someone, you know, if your associates just need a break and you're recognizing that, give it to 'em, that's a much more, that's a much better long term strategy and have a relief professional come in to keep your, um, productive in your pet parents taking care of.

Zack G. (09:58):

Yeah, exactly. I think, let me ask you another question. It's kind of a lifestyle question about that. Do you think that younger folks are seeing the appeal in this? You know, what I would consider to be semi nonconventional career track? I just have no notice in the last couple of years that, you know, younger folks, um, like the van life thing and the idea that life can be more fluid and that maybe this American dream of being tied to one house and one suburb with a, you know, the cars in the garage and the completely locked down like 25 year, and then you buy a lazy boy and that's it right? Like, I mean, that's, you know, I mean, there's some, we're all sort of like poisoned by that messaging from generations past. Do you think that you're seeing a different, you know, population of folks coming up through the, that this type of lifestyle actually appeals to more than anything else?

Dr. Cindy Trice (11:03):

A hundred percent. I mean the new generations of vets and just new generations in general are exactly what you referred to van life. You know, they see that their work life does not have to be what like their parents work life. Um, and that it, it can be more fluid and relief work is a perfect way to live this lifestyle because you can customize your relief practice to suit whatever responsibilities or goals or desires that you have in your life at that moment because everyone's, everyone's life goes through stages, right? So there may be a time in your life where, um, having, you know, a, a solid job where you go to one place all the time really suits you and really works for you. But there may also be a time in your life. Maybe when children come into the picture or elder care, or you're starting to get burnt out. And you're looking to sort of explore other sides of yourself, where having a more fluid, um, practice life can help you and, and relief practice is, is the perfect fit for people, either transitioning through it or who want to make it an entire career like I did.

Zack G. (12:18):

Yeah. I'm, I'm like envisioning myself basically chasing summer. Right? Yeah. So like, I mean, I'm just thinking about like lifestyle wise, it's like, you could almost set it up where you sort of seasonally move to, you know, be in the weather that you like, which is awesome. That's

Dr. Cindy Trice (12:38):

Exactly what my husband and I do. Ah, We're, we're not chasing summer so much because we leave summer in Florida. Okay. Right.

Zack G. (12:48):

Because

Dr. Cindy Trice (12:48):

We're, we're escaping summer. Cause it is so hot and mosquitoe here. Oh. So we go out west, so we've done Montana. Okay. Um, Washington, California. So I've met a lot of, um, relief professionals who are, are doing the same thing we have. I know at least one of our members and I'm sure there are more, she's got an her RV and her dogs. Yeah. And she's, I don't know how many states she's licensed in now, but she travels around and enjoys her life and uses relief work to fund that adventure.

Zack G. (13:23):

Oh, that's so awesome. What a great story. So it is kind of what I was saying. There's a little bit of that overlap with this. Um, like I say, kind of fluid, I, I think it's frankly, a very rich life to, to be able to move around and see more parts of the country, you know, interact with our sort of subcultures, if you will, you know, region by region and, and learn more, see more engage with more folks. And I, and I think ultimately that opens more doors, you know, down, you know, as, you know, the more F people that you interact with, the more practices that you, you know, visit and work in the, the more knowledgeable you become and the more connections you have. Right. I don't think there's a ton of downside to it.

Dr. Cindy Trice (14:08):

No, there's not. And that, and that was one of the, uh, premise of relief over was that your pool of relief professionals who can help your clinic are not necessarily just the ones in your backyard. You know, it used to be, um, you know, I had a little magnet business card and I still go to practices today, or I see that my first magnet business card that's on their refrigerators in the clinic. Right. And that was kind of how you kept track of your relief professionals, or maybe you had it, you know, a little list, but, but now, because people are having reasons to move more frequently and to live in, in other parts of the country, either temporarily or permanently, um, that doesn't work as well anymore. And there's, so there are so many more opportunities to find a relief at. And I'll give you a perfect example before I started relief forever. And this was one of the, the ideas, uh, where that sparked the idea, a single doctor practitioner on LinkedIn in trucky, California, which is near lake Tahoe, which is gorgeous, reached out to me, love

Zack G. (15:12):

It there, by

Dr. Cindy Trice (15:13):

The way I'm sitting. Yeah. I know. So gorgeous. And I'm sitting at my breakfast table in Florida and I get the little ping message from LinkedIn and she's like, Hey, you wanna come cover my maternity leave? I don't know her. She doesn't know me. And, um, I'm just crazy enough to do it. And I know I'm not the only one. Yeah. And so I convinced my husband, which wasn't hard to do. We threw the dogs in the car and off we go and it turned out brilliantly for both of us. And I thought, wow, how is it? What a needle in a haystack, right. Situation to have this single doctor practitioner in California find a relief that in Florida, I mean, we could hardly have been farther apart.

Zack G. (15:49):

Yeah. There's the beauty of the internet, I guess we're all more kind and well, you know, just think about it just really shrunk, you know, the whole spectrum of where people can work with each other, you know, and that, that's amazing. So what do, what do practice owners that need relief need to do to, you know, get engaged with your platform and, and find somebody you feel comfortable with?

Dr. Cindy Trice (16:15):

Yeah. So relief over works as a subscription based service. So employers can sign on either on a monthly or an annual basis and we do it's, they can post a job, but we recommend posting, uh, your hospital profile, whether you have a specific job or not. Because like I said, the idea is about building relationships and it is best to build relationships with relief professionals early and often. Okay. By usually by the time that you need them, you realize you need them parti. Particularly if it's some kind of last minute thing, it's often too late, they're, they're booking out so far are in advanced. And if you formed a relationship with one ahead of time, even inviting them to come in and work for your practice, if you're associate a, a day off and, and invite a relief practitioner. And if, even if you don't exactly need them and pay them to work, you get to know them, they get to know your clinic. They're far more likely to say yes. Um, come when it comes time, when you, when you really need them, because they've already formed a relationship with you. So that's, that's what I always recommend to hospitals. Think about it before you need them.

Zack G. (17:26):

Got it. And then if somebody, if a, if a practitioner or now a technician is interested in, you know, kind of spreading their wings and maybe doing some travel based work, what do they have to do?

Dr. Cindy Trice (17:39):

So we welcome. It's free for relief professionals, whether you're a veterinarian, um, a technician, we welcome students to this site. If you're just interested in learning about relief practice as well, you just sign up for a membership and you can choose. We give our, um, really members, a lot of autonomy. You can choose to be visible to employers and have your profile so they can see it and contact you, or you can choose to remain invisible. And then if you want to reach out to them and their profiles and their job postings, you can do so. So, um, so people who are just exploring, but maybe they're not ready to put themselves out there. We welcome them to come. We have lots of resources. We have lots of educational information on how to set up your relief practice, um, ways to figure out if we have this really cool wage calculator to help you figure out if relief practice is a viable choice for you based on your budget and how many days you wanna work. Right. Um, so we've got a lot of fun tools like that.

Zack G. (18:41):

Oh, that sounds awesome. So it's, so practices, subscribe, and providers and technicians can create you a profile for free.

Dr. Cindy Trice (18:51):

Correct.

Zack G. (18:52):

Okay. I got it. I got it. I, I like the model. I like the model. So, um, I'm gonna throw you, I'm gonna throw you a little bit of a twist here. What was in the middle of creating this like formalized platform, which obviously is like a software based website, you know, type of situation where, where, where was the biggest screw up you did and then how'd you fix it?

Dr. Cindy Trice (19:16):

Oh, gosh. Um, well the list is really long. How long is this podcast?

Zack G. (19:24):

Um, that's I mean, I think I, like, I like hear it about the screw ups. I know it's not probably, we heard about all the good stuff. I want to hear a bit about, you know, what went wrong and then more importantly, how did you remedy it?

Dr. Cindy Trice (19:37):

Well, I mean, you know, I, I'm not, I don't have a tech background, so I hired someone to, you know, build the website and truthfully, I mean, I'm a solo founder, I'm boots strapped. Right. Um, I've won some pitch competent and earned some grant money, um, and got a tiny bit of investment from a small company. But, um, otherwise this is all bootstraps. So the vision of what I wanted the website to be versus what the website, what I could afford is very far apart.

Zack G. (20:10):

So it's like Instagram, Instagram versus reality or whatever. Like they do those funny tricks. Yeah. I got you. No, I, I understand. I understand that, but you, but you've been working towards the vision. Yeah.

Dr. Cindy Trice (20:22):

I'm working towards the vision and, and every, every week, every month we get a little bit closer to that, to that vision. Um, but you know, I made some slipups along the way, as far as, um, you know, getting technical people to help me. And, um, I fell into a lot of sort of rookie traps with not having enough technical knowledge myself to appropriately vet people. Mm. Um, so I ended up, I'm sure. Spending money that I, I shouldn't have. Um, so those were some, so those were some painful screwups, but I think that's part of, part of it.

Zack G. (20:58):

Yeah. I think that's the cost to play, you know, to some degree. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, you got there and it's all working now, so it's water under the bridge, but there's always that, I think it, what you're saying is, is particularly interesting on my side, because when somebody has a vision about their business or their practice, or however, that is, a lot of times folks are held back technically and finding the right agent, if you will, um, to, you know, like you say, vet and integrate the right tools and systems and all of these, you know, sort of complicated things is an important task, you know, finding the right, the right trusted folks that are gonna act in the best interest of you, not in the necessarily the best interest from themselves, which is I think where things get tricky. Yeah.

Dr. Cindy Trice (21:47):

Yeah. For sure. Yeah. And not being able to sort those people out based on an interview.

Zack G. (21:54):

Right, right. Yeah. Cuz it's tricky. So well, so you got, do you feel like you have now the right team and everything is, you know

Dr. Cindy Trice (22:02):

Yes we have. Yes. We have a great, um, tech team in place, a tech company that, that us. And so we're, we're definitely much more straightened out, but I, I certainly have learned that and I I'm sure anyone who has any experience in tech already knows this, but you're never done. You're never done something is always yeah. Breaking you, add something new, it breaks something else. And I hope like it's like the best, it's the best business model for the tech people like, oh, you want this new feature? Let's add it. Oh, I just broke all these other things.

Zack G. (22:38):

We'll fix them. I'm gonna, I'm gonna share a little story for a second. So, you know, we do, we've been helping practices grow for, for the better part of seven years. Now we do a lot of technical stuff here and I had, uh, one client face, you know, it is like a big, big account, lot of locations. And they pay, you know, a good chunk of money. And at one point they were doing a budget audit and their, and their CFO was looking at the cost and they said, how come we're paying so much, what is actually happening? And the CEO said, that's exactly what we're paying for. Nothing is happening.

Zack G. (23:18):

Right. Right. And they're like, wait, what does that mean? He goes, we're paying for there to be no problems and that's worth its weight and goal. So, you know, and it's a little, and I bring it up because it's counterintuitive to people that wanna start a business or that are running a practice. The assumption that you, the value isn't paying for problems to be fixed is, is actually upside down the, the correct way to look at all that stuff is if you're paying and there's minimal drama, you're really getting worth your you're really getting value for your money cuz you don't want explosions and downtime and broken links and all the other things that I'm sure you've experienced in the process of building this whole platform. The less of that is the more is the better. And sometimes you gotta pay more to reduce all of that, but feels weird because you feel like you're spending and nothing's happening because somebody isn't reporting a bunch of problems they're solving. So it's a, it's a little bit of a trap and I see people getting into it all the time. So I'm glad you squared up on all that. So what is the next, tell me a little bit, how does the pandemic work for, or again, this business?

Dr. Cindy Trice (24:28):

I think really the pandemic worked for this business, um, in a lot of ways because well, what I've noticed is there's certainly more demand for relief that's in than there is supply. Um, and it's always been true on, on this that there have been that more employers reach out to relief vets than relief vets reach out to employers. That's always been true. And except for the very beginning months of the pandemic, it flip flopped because the practices were getting situated. Some were closing down, some were, you know, going to skeleton crew and then all of a sudden the relief that's lost their income. And so they were frantically looking for practices to, you know, take them on. Um, but you know, as you pointed out earlier, the, you know, pandemic pet boom has increased the demand for veterinary services across the, a board and, and that also means relief services.

Zack G. (25:30):

Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Cindy Trice (25:30):

And I, I think too, from the perspective of burnout and things like that, I mean, it's sad, but some, I mean, some of these professionals are like, I, I just, I need to get more gain more control over my working life and being a relief practitioner is one way to do that. But sometimes also being a relief practitioner means you are, um, actually just finding your new place to land. So some relief practitioners are actually shopping for a place that fits better, whether it's the, the pace of the clinic or the culture or geography or whatever the case may be.

Zack G. (26:08):

I get it. So that, so, so you're saying there's a portion of this population that is sort of using this as a trial run with yes. Different clinics.

Dr. Cindy Trice (26:20):

Yeah. And it's a great, it's like, boy. So if we go back to the dating analogy, it's like it's a little bit like going on a blind date in a way. Um, well, or like more like a, a secret date yeah. Where you don't want them to know that you're interested, you're printed pretended to just be friends.

Zack G. (26:39):

Got it. I love, I love, you know,

Dr. Cindy Trice (26:42):

And you're seeing how they behave on their, because if a clinic is wooing you yeah. As an, as an associate, right. You know, they may be on a different type of behavior and we can all be well behaved for a little while. Sure. And then, um, your true colors start to show through, but generally with, with relief, that's when, what you see is what you get, like you can go in and, and mostly the clinics are just behaving as the clinic store behave and, um, you know, or operate in their workflow and all of that. So you can really see what would it be like and would I fit in? And frankly they can see you too. So it works the other way around if you're looking for an associate hiring, really hiring is actually a great kind of way to do it. Cause you, you may find, um, that perfect associate through a relief professional.

Zack G. (27:32):

Yeah. It's a, I mean, I guess for all parties involved, it's sort of a, uh, a, a long term job interview, I guess is one way of thinking about it. I think a lot of practices will hire, uh, depending on the, you know, what I've seen personally, depending on what's going on, but they'll hire with, you know, some sort of 90 day window in general. Um, but the way it's been now with getting staff being so competitive, I think practices are just trying to contract everybody on day one, you know, to protect themselves from having to find more folks, you know, and, but that doesn't always work out cuz it could be a bad fit. So there's some risk with that.

Dr. Cindy Trice (28:18):

Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

Zack G. (28:20):

Well, what, um, let me, you know, just ask you, what is it, so what does your normal year look like? So are you gonna, you stay in Florida for the winners and then you go and then how, like how do you know where you're going next summer already?

Dr. Cindy Trice (28:39):

We're thinking about going to the Washington coast next summer. Um, I really, we definitely like going out west. Um, and we spent some time with a friend on the Washington coast and we thought, okay, maybe we can make this work. And it seems in my experience, at least right now, everywhere you go, people need that.

Zack G. (29:00):

Yeah, no, I, I think, I think they do. And I think they need, you know, from what I'm hearing too, a lot of the them are pretty, you know, tired out at this exact moment in time. Uh, because the workload has been, most of the practices that we have right now are, are booking. Like, uh, we had a couple last week, there were a hundred, 2% book last week, you know? So there's really no like, oh, I need to take half a day off. It just messes everything up so that it's just everythings super tight. So I think there's a great demand for getting some relief. Um, so that's no surprise to me at all, but so you're, you're, you haven't completely decided about next summer. What do you think the timeline is for folks like that are thinking about like three months out, six months out, one month out? Like what does the, what does the timelines look like for all the, you know, for making these types of adjustments or decisions? I

Dr. Cindy Trice (29:55):

Think that it certainly depends on your, you know, the, of factors in your life. So for instance, my husband and I, we don't have any little people. We do have too long and low dogs, they're docks and mixes. And, um, we can just throw them in the car. He's a freelance photographer. So we can, we have this lifestyle where we can just do that, that, that may not be true for everyone. So other people may need a, a lot more lead time than we do to, to make something like this work. You also have to think about licensing because of course we have to get licensed in, um, whatever state we wanna work in. And those, you have to jump through some hoops most of the time it's not difficult. Um, but it's, it takes time and, and you have to go through their processes to those things done. And it's variable by state.

Zack G. (30:44):

Is that something that you've helped facilitate inside the platform?

Dr. Cindy Trice (30:49):

We do have a state licensing sort of directory that gives you kind of the, the down and dirty of it, um, and then links you to the state licensing site. Um, but because there are a lot of in, and because the, um, it gets updated frequently, you know, with the states, um, you know, we just have to recommend everyone go straight through the state.

Zack G. (31:13):

Yeah, of course. I'm sure they have to. And then, but you've got it all set up. So inside there they can find the right place to go. So it does save some time for them, but there's still a process. And in general role, how long does state licensing take somebody?

Dr. Cindy Trice (31:27):

Like, I would say give, yeah, give yourself at least a three month lead time.

Zack G. (31:32):

Okay. So it is so it's like plan now for later. So three months. Yeah. Okay. I got it. So, but then once you have states that you like to go to, like, if you want to go back to Montana currency, like are, so are you still good to go if you wanna go back there?

Dr. Cindy Trice (31:46):

Yeah. So Mon for, for me, I let my Montana lapse, but I can, that one was pretty easy to get. I can pick that back up. I have California, which I've had since I graduated, California's notoriously a hard one to get. Okay. Um, so I hang on to that. I pay for that thing every year. I see. Um, and I keep Florida and I I'm keeping Washington for now, but yeah. So the, the states where you feel like you're gonna go back and forth, um, you may want to just hang onto them. So you don't have to go through that process again. Um, some of them, some states, um, I think allow temporary licensing. Okay. Um, and some states will allow you to have an inactive license that you can reactivate.

Zack G. (32:31):

Oh, that's kinda nice.

Dr. Cindy Trice (32:32):

So those are all things to look in and I will tell you, it'll be a great day when all the state boards, I don't know if this will ever happen, but if we could come up with a way for them to allow veterinarians to cross states and practice in other states, much easier. I know part of it is they want that revenue fine. We'll pay for it. But if we can make these processes easier, it really will help some of the, um, you know, the, the shift coverage. Sure. Because there are many people, if, if that weren't a barrier for them, that would hop, hop state lines and, and do

Zack G. (33:11):

Work. I see what you're saying. So for, for providers so that they know, where do you see that cost falling on? Whose whose responsibility is that typically? Is it the provider's responsibility or does the practice in some cases help with licensing costs?

Dr. Cindy Trice (33:32):

Um, there is never, I would always ask the practice, like particularly, so it, it kind of depends. So for, it's been, um, if I've gone specifically for a job, the first time we went to Washington, I went to cover someone's maternity leave. Right. So that was for a specific reason. So, um, a lot part of my travel was paid and lodging was subsidized. Got it. And same with when I went to California for that maternity leave that I was telling you about. Right. But sometimes like in the case of Montana, when we were going, I didn't, I wasn't going for a specific job. I built my network of customers when I got there. Right. Um, so nobody supported, um, the travel or the license.

Zack G. (34:21):

I see. So it's sort of dependent on what the arrangement is. If somebody really wants you to come, then you could expect them to help with some of these costs.

Dr. Cindy Trice (34:32):

Correct. And you can build that into your fees, right. Like, okay. There's no reason. I mean, you're, you're a business. So you have to think about what are my business expenses and, um, those business expenses should be built into your fees. And sometimes that means licensing fees and, and travel.

Zack G. (34:49):

Yeah. That's a good thing to mention. Is that, so, I mean, are these things that you find that you're having to, you know, counsel participants in, in the program about, or do people know that, I mean, I'm curious, you know, this is all new to me, so I'm, I'm fascinated by the fact that there's all of this going on.

Dr. Cindy Trice (35:09):

Yeah, no, we, we definitely, so we have a Facebook group and we have, um, groups on the platform so we can help each other troubleshoot. We also, some we've brought in, um, you know, CPAs and lawyers and we sometimes teach webinars about these things. Okay. We have a lot of education via blog posts. Um, so it's a constant discussion. And part of the, you know, vision of building this out is where we will have, um, even more support for veterinarians setting up their businesses and helping them choose what should my business entity be? You know, how do I kind of set up my QuickBooks or zero account? Like just some, some basic things and then counseling them on, you know, what does it mean to travel for work? What can I, I write off, what can I charge for? How do you figure out your fees and those kinds of things?

Zack G. (36:01):

Yeah. That's, I mean, I think that there's a lot of added value there and probably a lot of need, cuz I think, you know, they don't teach any of that type of stuff in veterinary school that I do know. Right. So most folks will find themselves on, you know, on out of their comfort zone, out of their educational sort of realm when they start to, you know, make these, you know, decisions. So it it's wonderful that you're providing that type of support and that you intend to do more of that in the future. Where do you, where do you, I mean, where do you see relief Rover in, you know, three to five years? Like how, and, and where do you see yourself as a part of it?

Dr. Cindy Trice (36:44):

So, I mean, I certainly see relief over having, um, built out the type of resources where relief professionals can truly come have their business in a box where you can run your business out of relief over, we don't, we don't want to hire these relief professionals on as employees. We wanna help support them so they can build their own businesses. And that would involve everything from helping you get your business entity set up, helping you get your accounting system set up, um, giving you tools to keep track of your expenses, um, giving you tools to, um, you know, keep track of all the documentation that you need to share calendaring systems, the whole thing. So that, and then hospitals and veterinarians can completely conduct their business back and forth out of, out of relief over. So that would, would be my vision. And, and then we have some other things up our sleeve, um, that I really wanna do to help support relief professionals.

Dr. Cindy Trice (37:46):

And I think a very underrecognized and undervalued resource are relief. Veterinarian's knowledge of our industry, right by virtue of the fact that they go to so many different practices, they have amazing insights into what's going on in practices, what tools are being used, how they're being used. And, uh, that is completely, um, untapped, untapped resource that, that could, that provides a lot of value for really profess. I also see a lot of, you know, ways that relief professionals and independent vets can, um, expand their services from more than just I'm coming in. And I fill in at your clinic to consulting, mentoring very important. Some of these practices aren't able to mentor, they don't have the time, or they don't have the veterinarians who are interested in mentoring, but they need to get their new grads up to speed, um, for their own, for the, for mental health reasons and also for, you know, production reasons. Sure. Um, and you know, or you could be a specialized expert, maybe you've got specialty skills and behavior or, um, dentistry or something, and you can come in and maybe that practice doesn't have a, a behavior, um, expert you can come in and do all the behavior appointments. So a lot of ways to run your relief practice beyond just coming in and, and filling, filling in, although that remains the bread and butter of it. And I think that remains a such an important service.

Zack G. (39:26):

Right? I got it, but there is clearly a lot more. I, I think what I think what stuck with me with is that getting, and this is, you know, my position getting to get, look under the hood of as many businesses as you can makes you a strong candidate for the next business, You know, because you're bringing all of this wealth of knowledge from different practices, you know, and, and it's small stuff can make, have huge impacts, you know, workflow, you know, issues, scheduling issues, procedural issues, um, how to work with clients, communication technique, all of these things that you pick up along the way become more and more optimized because you're, you've been able to join so many different operations, you know, and that's practical and also cultural. And then you get to bring that with you, which is very powerful. Yeah. There's a lot of value untapped, I guess, to be tapped, right.

Dr. Cindy Trice (40:35):

To be tapped. And we wanna, you know, relief ever wants to be part of harnessing that value for, for the veterinarians. We want that value to go back to the veterinarians who are, um, you know, providing it

Zack G. (40:49):

All right. Well, okay. Now, so you have another thing that we didn't talk about. You have this serial entrepreneur bug. So tell me about kick of pajamas for a second and what you know, and how is it that you had the bandwidth to run well for one, your, your work is a veterinarian. You've got relief over, which is a, you know, a business in itself. And then you've got this whole other, almost like side gig, if you will kick a pajamas. So what's going on with kick a pajamas and where where'd that come from?

Dr. Cindy Trice (41:24):

So I might actually be a crazy person, um, to have done all of this. I is one thing to be a serial entrepreneur. It's quite another to be a simultaneous entrepreneur. However, um, I'm, I'm a cancer survivor. And I came up with an idea to have cute pajamas that you can wear while you're in the hospital, because my favorite gift was a pair of pajamas and it made all the difference in the world for all the various hospitalizations I had to undergo. So, so I came up with the idea and I ended up actually putting it in the closet cuz I didn't know what to do with it. Um, I, I got kind of, as far as I could get, and then I met, um, a group of women who are two of whom already own a clothing company. And so the four of us restarted kick pajamas in December and it's really, we sell pajamas accessories and it's really for the gift giver it's so with, if someone in your life has cancer or some other illness and you wanna do something nice for them,

Zack G. (42:22):

Like they're just they're if somebody's just gonna be in the hospital for, for a little while. I mean pretty much right. Yeah. Okay.

Dr. Cindy Trice (42:28):

Or even recovering at home, we have lots of other things for recovering at home as well. And I used to volunteer at a, a chemotherapy infusion center. So, um, I saw the different things that the women need there. So we have some accessories that, that can help with that. Um, but yeah, it's, it's just, it's for a gift to give us a gift. And, and we, we thought of, we tried to think of everything. So the whole package comes in in this nice little bag where you could put the pajamas in, it comes with a pretty bookmark. So all the things that someone who is recovering, whether they're recovering at home or in the hospital, um, might need or want to make them feel better.

Zack G. (43:08):

Okay. Men and women or just women

Dr. Cindy Trice (43:10):

Currently, just women. We do have, um, on our plans to do kids, teens and men.

Zack G. (43:17):

Got it. And then I, you know, it's a terrible question to ask, but I do wanna ask you, is, has that picked up a little bit with all of this COVID stuff and people getting sick?

Dr. Cindy Trice (43:28):

Well, we, we launched, we've been selling for less than a year. Okay. That we launched in oh,

Zack G. (43:36):

Like right in the middle, right. In the middle of the whole thing

Dr. Cindy Trice (43:39):

Right. In the middle of the whole thing. Got it. But yeah, so we're still, we're still early stage, but we're, you know, we're on Etsy. Um, we're getting on Amazon and then people do, it's all online sales, they come direct to the website.

Zack G. (43:52):

Sure. I got it. So, so you figured out how to make time for all of this stuff and

Dr. Cindy Trice (43:59):

Yeah.

Zack G. (44:00):

And besides, besides hanging out with your husband and the two dogs, what are you doing to keep yourself energized and to keep yourself healthy and not kind? Like what, what did, what do you do daily to invest in yourself?

Dr. Cindy Trice (44:13):

Um, walk or run a and uh, some days, um, Pilates classes.

Zack G. (44:21):

Okay. So that's how you're keep, that's how you're keeping yourself fit. And, and

Dr. Cindy Trice (44:25):

Then, and then trying to just like laugh with friends because to me that's like the best I gotcha.

Zack G. (44:31):

Um, yeah.

Dr. Cindy Trice (44:32):

Yeah. That's the best way to stay mentally healthy.

Zack G. (44:34):

That's awesome. Okay. So to, to, just for everybody that's listening. So is it relief rover.com? It is yes. Relief. Okay. Yep. It's relief rover.com. If you're a practice owner, you can go air and subscribe, right. And, uh, get set up to find relief veterinarians and potentially technicians for your practice. And if you're one of those folks, you can set up a profile for free@reliefforover.com and start looking at the possibility of doing some travel work and, and shaking things up. And you might find something out there that is, uh, completely different than what you expected, but a lot of fun. Yeah,

Dr. Cindy Trice (45:22):

Absolutely. It's a great, it's a great lifestyle.

Zack G. (45:24):

Awesome. Thanks so much, Cindy, for being on the show. I think, you know, I love having, you know, the we've attracted did entrepreneurs onto the show and you just fit in so well. And I, you know, the name of the show is practice Omatic because we fo, you know, my, my thing has always been help people, leverage technology to grow their businesses without them, you know, getting bogged down and, and tech stuff and getting derailed from what they really want to do, which is serve their clients, take care of animals and their staff and their families. But we all know that's a necessity and it seems like you just fit in so well with, you know, my whole vibe. And I'm really grateful that you've spent some time and shared everything that you've learned and, and what you've built with relief Rover and kick it pajamas.

Dr. Cindy Trice (46:19):

Thank you for having these act have been super fun.

Zack G. (46:22):

All right. Awesome. And so for, for folks there listening, we'll see you on the next episode of practice somatic and, uh, you can find us online on Spotify and all the other podcast platform.

Announcer (46:34):

Thank you for listening to this episode of practice, home matting, subscribe to the podcast. So you don't miss any future episodes for additional help and resources for your practice. Visit Zach greenfield.com to connect with Zach. Visit Zach greenfield.com/zg.