VO (00:01):

Welcome to practice. Oh, mat where doctors and practice owners share business, lifestyle and marketing stories. All well, guiding you to more patients. Here's your host, Zach Britton field. Hello everybody. This is Zach

Zack G. (00:15):

Greenfield. Welcome back to practice nomadic. Today we have with us Dr. Mark cousins, he's down in new Orleans and he is the owner of the cat practice graduate of LSU. He's been in practice for 42 years. He's a board certified feline specialist. He's been certified by the American board of ed ternary practitioners three times. So he's in his third certification. Now he's also certified in acupuncture and pain management. Dr. Mark started with dogs and cats, and then zeroed in on cats and has been in doing that since 1987. Welcome Dr. Mark. So glad to have you on the show today. Hey, it's a pleasure. Thanks for asking me to join you. All right. Yeah. So you're the first person that we've had, that is a cat specialist. So tell me a little bit about why and how you ended up narrowing down your focus and to just that one area, that one species area,

Dr. Mark (01:15):

It's a been an area, and you have the luxury of working with different, lots of different species of animals and your training. And also when you get out of school and career choices, I guess, uh, you know, my, when I first got out of school, I was in a, what I would call a general practice dogs and cats. And I guess I was drawn to the feline species for, for a number of reasons, not the least of which, uh, are the people that had owned them, who I think are a different breed actually than the, uh, than the canine people are. There's a lot of good psychology research that will back you up on that

Zack G. (01:50):

Of laughing, but cats

Dr. Mark (01:52):

Or cats are fascinating here. Their diseases are just intriguing. They're up to me, they're a little bit harder of a species to kinda get a handle on and diagnose and perhaps even the handle. Um, but I'm intrigued by all that. And, um, again, you combine that with the typical feline owner and for me, it was a, it was just, I guess, a natural, uh, just the natural progression evolution of my career.

Zack G. (02:16):

Did you, um, you know, I want to ask, because I do like to ask some business questions. Do you feel like zeroing on, on cats, um, also helped differentiate your practice a little bit?

Dr. Mark (02:28):

Absolutely. Zach, I think that the typical feline owner appreciates a practice that is focused only on cats. Um, put yourself in a position of that, that owner, they walk into a typical veterinary hospital, hopefully they're catching a carrier and they're meeting at the front. They're met at the front door by a Rottweiler who puts his face in front of the carrier and wants to see what's in it. Yeah, not exactly a pleasant experience for the poor cat. That's sitting in there carry the pheromones that are released by the dogs. The sounds, the smells, you know, all that stuff. And it ends up being quite a traumatic experience for the poor that poor cat. So the answer to your question is absolutely, um, people appreciate the, the, the whole environment, the panache, the karma of a feline only practice. It's a much quieter place right now. My staff, you know, has a choice of listening to soul music or sixties classic rock, or if I have my way jazz, instead of hearing dogs barking, whining, screaming, that sort of thing all day long. I,

Zack G. (03:36):

I, that, you know, now that you bring that sort of environmental stuff that didn't even occur to me, and it is kind of interesting. It's probably a completely different, uh, energy and a cat only practice and a few feline, you know, I mean, this is obviously like you say, like not barking and not as rambunctious and all of that. So probably a pretty peaceful place to work for your staff in general.

Dr. Mark (03:57):

Well, in general. Yeah, it is. It is. I mean, that's, again, that's one of the, that's one of the advantages of having a feline only practice is that hopefully we can get these animals, you know, who tend to be nervous anyway, we can get them in an environment where they feel more homely, feel more, more relaxed, more at ease, and, you know, we can take our time.

Zack G. (04:14):

Do you, do you have anybody down in your market that you feel like is even close to competing with you in this sort of area?

Dr. Mark (04:23):

There's another feline practice in an, in, in a neighboring parish, Jefferson parish. There's another one up in Baton Rouge, but we were the first one in Louisiana.

Zack G. (04:31):

I mean, I just think, I just think it's fascinating. Um, I think everybody would acknowledge that to some degree, cats are a little bit harder to work with, you know, especially on the grooming side and some of the other services and things like that. It can be very tricky to handle. I, I agree with you. I mean, it seems like a lot of folks that we have on the show and a lot of the vets that we work with definitely specialize in both dogs and cats and some exotic, but like I said, you're the first that's zeroed in on cats and now has been, you know, decades in. Do you ever see any dogs or you just completely have ruled that out at

Dr. Mark (05:05):

This point? No, I, I had an interest. I had, I was a partner with a dog and cat practice that I sold my interest in the early two thousands and never looked back.

Zack G. (05:13):

Yeah, that's awesome. And so tell me, when you, when you got out of school, was this where you thought you were going to end up focused on cats?

Dr. Mark (05:23):

I didn't necessarily think I was going to be focused on cats. Um, but I did know that eventually, and probably sooner rather than later I was going to have my own practice. Um, and in fact, uh, I got out of school in 1980 and by 1983, I had purchased land from my first practice of 84. I was in it. So, um, I knew I was going to have my own practice one day. And you

Zack G. (05:48):

Built it from the ground up? Yes, sir. The first, the first one, this one here that the cat, the cat practice this, I mean, I know you're in this older building, so is this a building that, that is, you know, do you have adopted for your veterinary practice?

Dr. Mark (06:06):

I mean, interestingly enough. And so going back to a point you made before about, about a cat practice, I think, you know, most cat practices, most successful cat practices are located in an urban area, in an urban environment, right. Where there's high density living, where those kinds of people that would be prone to have cats. Right. I mean, you know, it's hard, it's hard to keep a great Dane in the 22nd floor condo. Yeah. That's

Zack G. (06:28):

A really good point. It's a really good point. Yeah.

Dr. Mark (06:30):

So, you know, most of the cab practice are in an urban environment and this one is no different. We're in a, we're in a very urban area in the city whirlwinds. We're up, we're not too far away. You mentioned the French quarter movie talking. We're not too far away from the French quarter. This building that we're in is one of about, uh, nine or 10 buildings in this block that were built in 1850. When I purchased this building was an absolute total wreck. And we hadn't renovated from the ground up and make it adaptable for our use. Um, it's in a historic area. So we had to be sensitive to the historic, our requirements that the, um, the local regulatory agencies put on us. Um, so it is, uh, it is a building that has been completely adapted for our use.

Zack G. (07:10):

And so, okay. Well, that's kinda neat. So you do so the building is actually purpose-built to serve cats in the best way.

Dr. Mark (07:18):

Yes, sir. And just as a side note, you know, in the history of this building was built in 1850, I birched, it renovated it by 1989. And in 2002, there was a disastrous fire in the middle of the block. And we actually burned to the ground. The whole block lit up and the scale was terrible. It was horrible worst day of my life. And so long story short, we managed to get a jump in a place right across the street and have our temporary practice there. And then we came back in to when we refurbish it and we did it all, of course, we had to build a completely back in 2004, we won an award for designed by a veterinary magazine called veterinary economics. We wanted a design award in September of 2005. And guess what happened in September of 2005, that was Katrina Katrina. So once again, we were kind of blown away. And so the bottom line is for a couple of years, I had no idea what normal was. I had absolutely no idea what normal business was in this area. We didn't normalize it to probably around 2008, 2009. It was, it was a little bit hairy, uh, doing business in this area, but, you know, we survived and thank goodness we had fabulous clients. And, you know, we

Zack G. (08:29):

Just imagine everybody's very understanding when there's like, you know, especially like in the Katrina situation, everybody's just trying to help each other out. I think down there from, you know, my, from looking in from the outside, of course I wasn't there, you know, but that's the, that's the story that I saw unfolding about your community during

Dr. Mark (08:46):

That time. Interesting, Zach, and you know, the difference between the fire and Katrina was the fire was a microeconomic event in, we were the only business that was affected by that. Well, I mean the other businesses in the block, but it's actually, but Katrina, August was a macro economic event where the whole, you know, the whole area, the whole community was devastated. So each one had its own set of challenges that we had to work through. So I don't want to go through each one again.

Zack G. (09:13):

No, I know. And you know, the time that I had been down there even, well, I guess it was three years ago that I was in new Orleans and there's still buildings that you can see are being rebuilt from Katrina in the

Dr. Mark (09:26):

Better now. I mean, now the pandemic of course was an issue, but, but, but yeah, I mean, there are still scars.

Zack G. (09:31):

Oh yeah, absolutely. Like they, you can physically see as you're walking around, you know, just places that are like, you know, still without windows, without door, you know, the whole thing and, and, you know, I'm sure it's just, it's just taking time and it's an incredible amount of money. Do you think that going through those two, you know, sort of traumatic business experience and also like literally physically dish, you know, physical disruption where you lost your building to fire, and then you had the hurricane, everything, do you think that helped prepared you for this last year and a half of all the challenges that we've had, you know, nationwide with this pandemic stuff?

Dr. Mark (10:04):

I think he makes one more resilient, but I mean, each of these, like I said, each of these has their own challenges in terms of what's going on. The interesting thing about this pandemic is I think it has made people bond with their pets just would agree that that, that I've never seen before, not just individually, but, you know, but sort of the number of people that have that, you know, bonded with their pets and started paying more attention to their, their pets, because they're all with them all the time. They're watching them, they see what's going on more. And you know, that, that cat, that bomb it's, you know, two or three times or four times a week that they might miss. Now, they're seeing it happen in front of their eyes while they're working on zoom, you know? So we're seeing these patients more. And so it's, it's, it's been, it's been a lot more, we've been a lot busier, but I think it's because people have been paying more attention to their animals cause

Zack G. (10:54):

They're home. Do you, you know, I've asked this question before, but I definitely want to hear your opinion on it. Do you think, and a lot of vets are reporting the same thing that you're reporting that business kind of picked up owners are paying more attention to their animals are more, more engaged with pet ownership, I guess since they're in the house, do you think that the business, you know, I guess there's two parts to this question and the conversation I've had before is really how much of that extra business was real legitimate health concerns or sort of human hypochondria, you know, stuff, and or is any of this change going to be permanent with pet owners as we move forward and they do go back to work. Has anybody really, has anybody learned anything I guess is the second part to that?

Dr. Mark (11:40):

Well, again, you know, Zach, I'm speaking from the feline market, who can you need to own your stand? The cats are masters at hiding disease. Um, this practice is focused on trying to be proactive with cat owners. We try to educate them and try to get them in here and try to encourage them to let us do routine healthcare so we can pick up problems before they become bad, because when a cat comes in here and it's quote sick, a lot of times I'm behind the eight ball. Okay. So we try to be proactive. So in answer to your question, we've had taken this opportunity to try to educate people about this philosophy about trying to be proactive with their animals when people do bring animals in here. I don't think it's hypochondria. I think it's, these animals are sick and their nose. I mean, they've noticed it. And like I said, when he can't get sick, um, you know, when you, when you physically notice the cat doing poorly, there's usually something going on. So where there's smoke, there's fire. So I don't think [inaudible], uh, you know, like people like the same Munchausen by proxy. I don't think that's what it is. I do think that people are seeing their cats. Um, they're picking up these more subtle signs earlier, right. But these cats that we see that owners describe as sick most of the time truly are.

Zack G. (13:02):

Okay. Well, that's good. Yeah. That's good to know. Does it make sense? Yeah. No, it makes great. It makes perfect sense. And you know, it's pretty much in alignment with what I've heard. I've definitely, you know, had some other conversations where, which included the dog world, you know, and the cat world, you know, sort of a broader conversation where there's definitely been a pickup in business. Some of that has been, uh, like a little bit of, you know, almost, you know, I think probably speaks to what you said, which is that some owners really seeing things in the, with their animal because they're spending a lot more time, you know, in proximity, but lack of education is bringing the animal into the vet and maybe some stuff was didn't really require, you know, going to the vet. It was just like a care issue or whatever. So there's like, there's some like portion of that. That was a little bit over the top if you will. But I think, you know, and the second part of the conversation is, is this new awareness. And in your case, you know, the opportunity to do more ownership, education, you think we've got an opportunity here for some of that to be, uh, you know, to carry forward with your clients and maybe other folks.

Dr. Mark (14:16):

I hope so. I mean, again, in feline metals, medicine, it's all about subtlety and, you know, if we can get there, like I tell my clients, I like to get there just before the disease does, because that's where I can make my biggest difference. Um, and you know, if the disease beats me by too much, then I've got a swim upstream and I don't like to do that. So we definitely try to educate our owners that, that, you know, be proactive. And we do practice a very aggressive medicine here. Um, you know, that proaction is really the way to be in feline medicine. Um, you know, and I was going to add one thing to what you were saying before about people coming in. And again, this is probably more of a dog than a cat thing, you know, coming in with just little subtle, a little maybe nondescript, or maybe not even, um, valid science to come to the vet. And remember, it's a little bit more difficult to prove the cat to the vet than it is a dog. So hopefully people will wait longer to bring their cat in because it's a little bit more difficult to do that. So therefore when they bring it in, it's usually more justifiable.

Zack G. (15:19):

That's an interesting differentiator, you know, sort of difference between the realities of cat and dog ownership. You're right. Because a dog, you know, you open the car door and come on buddy. And they jump right in and they, you know, they're willing to go anywhere. I mean, I would say the majority of cats don't even want to get in a car. A lot of certainly I'm a cat owner, by the way, and a dog owners,

Dr. Mark (15:42):

I was going to ask you that. I'm glad to hear that. That's good. So you know exactly what I'm talking about.

Zack G. (15:46):

Yeah. My cat doesn't want my cat. Doesn't like the car at all. And he would definitely need, you know, why

Dr. Mark (15:54):

You can't, you know what you can't, doesn't like the car Zack, I'm going to tell you what that doesn't like, where do you take your cat? When you take your cat in the car,

Zack G. (16:01):

The only place that cat's ever gone? Well, two times I had to pick them up from the neighbor's house. So he got to come home twice. And then the only other times are going to the vet, which of course he does.

Dr. Mark (16:10):

When your cat goes to the car, that's kind of a bad signal, isn't it?

Zack G. (16:13):

Yeah. Yeah. It's bad association. So I probably should. So, all right. So you tell me Dr. Mark, where can I take my cat? Where I can reprogram that a little bit? Where do cats

Dr. Mark (16:23):

Want to go take your cat? You live in Arizona, you got beautiful. Godrey taking Patty, holding him, give him some, give him some positive reinforcement. And every time he gets in that car, he's not going to get his shot was booty, right? Yeah.

Zack G. (16:37):

Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. Fair enough. All right. So I'll ask you now just to take advantage of my time with your, for a minute as a cat owner and for cat owners that might be listening. Do you, you know, I mean, my cats are basically an indoor outdoor cat. He's a, he uses the dog door with the dog, seems to be fine around the dog. They sort of tolerate each other. I wouldn't call them best buddies, but they, you know, co-exist, do you think that I should start taking the cat out, like on my hikes and things like that?

Dr. Mark (17:07):

Well, it just depends on the environment you live in. I mean, you got to remember what I said, most cat hospitals or most cat practices are in an urban area. It's impossible to take a cat out in an urban area. I mean, it's the American association of feline practitioners are now swinging toward the, the thought that, you know, the outside environment certainly is good for a cat psyche. And I w I wouldn't argue with that. It gives them, you know, physical stimulation gives them intellectual stimulation. Um, you know, it certainly encourages their normal Cray behavior and their normal app, you know, pre-acquisition behavior and, you know, that's and be more of a cat. I get that that's for sure, but in an urban environment, um, you know, cats outside is not exactly the safest thing for them. Um, and there's corners and all the other stuff,

Zack G. (17:57):

But I'm in the, I'm in the privilege of being up pretty, pretty rural in the mountains here, up in Northern Arizona. And so, uh, you know, I, I, uh, you know, we have hiking right outside the house. You could, you know, get to forest if you will. You know, I just, I think sometimes I feel like, you know, we take the dog like to the Creek and things like that. And I kind of wonder, I'm like, I wonder if the cat would enjoy this, but I think the cat would to do that safely probably needs to be on a, like a harness or something. Well,

Dr. Mark (18:27):

There's one other thing you need to remember about cats, more so than dogs. Okay. Cats are fiercely territorial, and I'll bet you that when your cat goes outside on a Tandy without you, he has a range, which he stays in and that's his turf. And he's comfortable in that range when he gets outside of that range. His corporate factor probably starts to drop, but he may not be quite so happy, but when he's in his territory and in his turf, he's king of his world, and that's probably where he's happiest. I

Zack G. (18:57):

See. So, well, we've got some properties, so maybe I should just spend more time with him around where he's comfortable outside.

Dr. Mark (19:03):

Sure. Okay. Let him tell you where he wants to go.

Zack G. (19:05):

All right. I like it. I like it. Okay. Well, that's, I mean, you know, that's enough about me. Let me shift gears with you a little bit. And let me ask you, what are you doing right now, coming out of the pandemic to support your, you know, what are you doing to drive your business right now, as you look forward coming into, you know, the, the end of this year, the next two business quarters and going into next year, what, how's it looking for you? What are you doing? Yeah, I wish I could make a definitive statement on that, but I can't, but you're right. We're in some sort of weird bouncing, you know, sort of pandemic chop, if you will. And it seems to be coming and going, depending on which part of the country. Yeah.

Dr. Mark (19:44):

I think, you know, the thing that, that, that, that we do with my shoe and most veterinarians do, I mean, we have social media access. We have things like this podcast that we're doing right now. I think most of the stuff that we're doing is, is pretty much what most that an errands are doing. I think still think one of the biggest drivers to veterinarians is still, at least in my environment, in my, in my little world where we are is still a word of mouth. And so we try to make sure that our clients get the utmost care and utmost service in the field that when they come in. And that's what I think the most important thing that we can do to try to keep our business viable and relevant is let our clients know, you know, how much we care about their animal and how much we care about, about educating them on the proper care for their, for their cats. And so that's, it's just our brand of

Zack G. (20:35):

Service. Yeah. I think that, I mean, you know, clearly, you know, everything starts with your you and your team and your providers doing, you know, an exceptional job. I mean, there's no escaping w if that starts to fall apart, there's no escaping that as a, as a thing, as a negative, but it can be a huge support. You, you know, let me ask you this. So on word of mouth, do you encourage reviews and, and any of that, you know, testimonial and feedback that gets published starts in your practice. Every client

Dr. Mark (21:07):

Gets up, gets a, from our, from our software service. Every client gets a little survey that they get. And when we get really good ones, we try to post them on our website. So people will be able to see, you know, just what people think about us. Well, that

Zack G. (21:20):

Sounds, that sounds awesome. Are you doing any speaking or anything that other vets might tune into in the next, you know, six or eight months that you have on your schedule? Perhaps?

Dr. Mark (21:31):

Yeah. I've been approached by a couple of concerns that want me to go out on the road for them, but Zach, it all depends on how this doggone buyers going to act. Right. I know there's a wonderful, wonderful feline pain product that hopefully it's going to be coming out soon. Then I've been asked to talk about, but man, that's been, they put the, they put the clamps down on that again with this, with this resurgence. And so I don't know what's going to happen.

Zack G. (21:53):

Yeah. It's really hard for anybody, I guess, to make plans like that. Tell me a little bit, tell, tell me a little bit about, about pain management and the feline practice. And I know you're, you're, you're also certified and, and too a lot of acupuncture, and this is an area that, uh, I can tell you from my experience, some vets are looking at adopting more, I guess, what I would call like a holistic approach to care and more Eastern medicine to incorporate with their Western medicine and edgy, you know, and the education that they've gotten here in the states, how's that working in your practice and how's it working with felines in particular?

Dr. Mark (22:35):

I think the whole subject of pain is a fascinating one, which is why I tried to get some, a little advanced training in it. I think that that is, it has historically been an undervalued portion of the veterinary practice. Um, and that's kind of a shame to say that, but I think it has. And I think most veterinarians will admit that thank goodness in the last, probably five to 10 years, that an areas are starting to get on a bandwagon more and more, and understanding that that is a, that is a not only important and needed part of our practice, but it's a humane part of our practice that we need to make sure that we cover that aspect. And so, um, you know, the kind of thing and what we have around here, and I've, I've, I've taken a lot of effort to try to train my nurses that work here.

Dr. Mark (23:18):

And we have just a very, very simple Maxim. If you think it hurts, it does do something. And so it's, it's very simple. I mean, if you get a tooth pulled in your mouth by your dentist, chances are it's going to hurt, right. We don't, you know, you're not, I'm not going to ask my patient if it hurts. I can't number one, number two, it's almost fruitless because you know, it hurts you. So why not do something about it? Right. So pain management in this practice is a huge part of what we do. And, you know, we use almost all the pain medication that they use in the human side. We use it here and we are very, very aggressive and we practice what's called multimodal pain management, which means that you, you, you treat pain at different, different points of the pain cycle. Um, and we try to keep our patients as comfortable as we can because, uh, you know, I mean, I still see still hear stories and get records of cats that have been spayed without any lick of pain management going on. Now, can you imagine if you had major abdominal surgery and were never given so much as an aspirin?

Zack G. (24:19):

I mean, that, like, to me, that definitely is that sounds inhumane to me. Yeah. Well,

Dr. Mark (24:24):

I mean, unfortunately, you know, you see that in, in a lot of that, I'm not, I'm not trying to do them a disservice, but you see that a lot of low cost situations that these animals go in there for, you know, a surgery or something like that. And they're not given a of pain medication and it's, it's sad. It's very sad. Um, and so, and so, you know, we try, we try to practice, we try to practice a very, very aggressive style. We try to practice a very, very aggressive style. Okay. Thank you, Joe. A very aggressive style of pain management here, and we use a lot of medications to try to keep our patients comfortable. Um, that's part of what we do. Uh, acupuncture plays a role in that. Um, sometimes, um, with cats, just not to give you a lecture in acupuncture, but there's basically two, two ways to give acupuncture.

Dr. Mark (25:09):

There's, what's called points on, on the body and the actual part, like up by the spine and cats, and it points down the limbs cats aren't going to like it. When you stick a needle in their pot, that's something hat, that's a good way to get, to get a real, a real strenuous reaction from the kidney. So we use a lot of points on the back, you know, just relief, pain and things like that. So, you know, it's just something that we incorporate in when necessary in our, in our, uh, in our treatment of pain here, but our pain management, especially with any, again, you got to remember what we talked about before cats are subtle. Cats are good. Expressway, dogs are going to limp. That's our good old, you know, they're going to sleep more. They're going to lay down more. They're going to be, they're going to withdraw more. Okay. Very subtle. In a lot of times, it's extremely hard to even diagnose chronic pain in the cat, but it's important. And there was a study done on a North Carolina state university that says 70% of cats over the age of 12 have at least one radiographic sign of, of arthritis. Um, that's significant. Think about that 70% of the cats over the age of 12, that's significant. And so it's incumbent upon us to both recognize it has been an error and educate our owners that it exists.

Zack G. (26:22):

It can cat owners or other vets that may be artists. You know, I mean, we got an audience here that mark is both professional and perhaps, you know, on the ownership side of cat, what, what are the things cause you're, we have the privilege of having you on the show. You literally probably have more experience in this area than anybody I've talked to in the last 10 years. Tell me what on the pain management side, what are the signs like? What are, what are the things that cat owners and other vets can start to pick up on that is this, you know, in that, because it's so subtle and you've had some extra experience with this, what are the, what are the signs that an animal is dealing with chronic pain?

Dr. Mark (27:02):

As far as veterinarians are concerned? The education of that, there is just, like I said, in the last five years or so, just exploded the amount of information available with pain management and feeding the feeling world. It's almost an every journal and every article you read. And so there's no excuse for veterinary not to educate themselves about, about pain, pain management, the science of pain to the cat. It's just, it's everywhere. So thank goodness for that. That's really a good thing. Now, as far as owners are concerned, then it becomes incumbent upon them in an area and you try to express and educate the owners. Some of the subtle things that cats do when it comes down to pain. So there's two types of pain, right? Acute and chronic, right. Acute pain. That's easy. Okay. You, you, you, you extract the tooth to the cat's model.

Dr. Mark (27:43):

The cat has a broken leg. The cat gets a cat bite abscess. You know, something like that. That's easy. You know, the cat is going to be hurting with that. There's no doubt. So you can prove that, okay. It's the chronic situation that becomes more difficult. Okay. So what are some of the signs of chronic pain? The get, well, like we talked about, um, the cat sleeps, more people say, well, you know what my cat is, so it's going to sleep more. Well, maybe that's true, but maybe the cat's got hip dysplasia, maybe the cat's got chronic pain and it's, it doesn't want to walk around a little more. So it's going to sleep. Okay. Not because it doesn't want to walk around. It's because it hurts. They will draw more. They're not in the family room. As much as previously sociable GAT is know is now being withdrawn.

Dr. Mark (28:25):

Okay. They may grow more. You may see a subtle limp, probably you won't. They stopped jumping up on things, a cat that used to use to get aggravated at their jumps on the furniture or jumps on your countertop to try to steal food no longer does that anymore. I can't double clutches what it tries to jump up on something. You know what I mean by that, instead of like making one smooth job, it kind of like lurches a couple of times and then jumps up on something. That's trying to overcome the pain sensation to get enough, to get enough power, to make that leap. I said, well, these are all very subtle. A lot of times, I'll be honest with you. I'm, I'm confused. And I don't know a lot of these cases, I will try them with the little short course of some sort of analgesic. And I'll tell you, owners, call me in a week. Let me know if you notice anything different. Let me know. Notice if your catch starts running again. Let me notice if your cat is out more. Let me notice your catch. Now, jumping back on the chair, let me notice if your cat is suddenly running around and chasing his toys again, let me know if you see a change in behavior, if you do, we've got to find a source of pain. We got to come up with some long-term strategies.

Zack G. (29:35):

I see. Okay. Well that makes sense. Yeah. It makes him cry. I mean, it's, it's illuminating that it's, you know, that subtle. It's also good to hear that in your opinion, there's an abundance of resources on the professional side, but I, as a cat owner and you know, and maybe I'm not zeroed in, on all of this as much as I should be, but it sounds like there's still some catch up on the ownership side in terms of getting educated on the things that you just talked about.

Dr. Mark (30:03):

I think it's important as a cannoli urine, you dial this and cat owners are just dialed into their pets. They just are. And I think that it's, you know, this education is needed. We need to train as veterinarians. We need to transfer this information to our owners. Um, so they understand what to look for. Pain is pain. It's not it. Well, I mean, it's natural, but it's nothing that a cat has to suffer. There are ways there are methods that we can use to keep our older cats, um, happier and healthier and out of pain, but you can't do it unless you know, that that's happening to your animal. And that comes down to veterinary education.

Zack G. (30:44):

Right. And so, and that may be an, I mean, this, this is the kind of stuff that I guess maybe more owners started to notice by way of the fact that we've all been home more, huh?

Dr. Mark (30:56):

Sure, absolutely. You know, and, and sometimes I'll never forget. One day I had a, I had a, uh, physician married to an attorney, two very, very, very smart people in my examination room. And they were talking to, we were just talking about the cat. It was an older cat. You know how the cat find funny, everything's fun. And the cat was on the ground walking around and I noticed the cat trying to double clutch and jump up on the exam table. So your cat's got pain. No, no, no, no, no, no. My cats, it does. It took me half an hour to talk these people into letting me x-ray their cat and they can't hit horrible hip arthritis. Now these people love their cat. They had, it wasn't any malice, but they just didn't, Teligent intelligent people.

Zack G. (31:38):

Right. So even, and even that's with the eyes of a, of a physician now, granted he's a human doctor. This just tells everybody that the subtleties with cats are, you know, escapable by even a semi trained eye, if you will. Sure. And again,

Dr. Mark (31:55):

It's just one of the nuances of the feline world, uh, that, that, that, you know, that, um, that is different than the canine. Again, it's a much more subtle brand in the veterinary medicine.

Zack G. (32:05):

Yeah. So tell, okay. So tell me, tell me what you would say to a veterinary, a veterinary doctor, or a practice owner that's considering going in the direction that you went and narrowing their practice to feline only. What, what, what would you be your words of wisdom after all these decades of, you know, building the business, having to rebuild it after fires and continuing down this path, and then finally yourself, you know, obviously success, is it successful and, and well-known in your area?

Dr. Mark (32:36):

Well, I think, I think exactly the thing is, is that I think most important thing from a business aspect is, you know, everything we've talked about is as an amalgam as globally, I think points to the fact that the feline market is a different market segment than the canine market. And I think that is the thing that if you're going to go in an all feline practice, that is the most important thing, you need to understand that the values, the nuances, uh, demeanor mores of the feline segment are different than those of the canine segment. And it's important that you understand that, that you recognize that, that you celebrate that, uh, and that will make you, um, you know, a good, have a good viable feline practice going down the road.

Zack G. (33:23):

Yeah. And then I think, I mean, I think it's also important to, you know, just to it stuck out to me that one of the reasons that your practice has worked so well is because of the density of your area and that cats make good household companions in a, in a densely populated area. So I think, you know, it's probably a tougher thing to pull off maybe in a more rural situation.

Dr. Mark (33:49):

Absolutely. Absolutely. And again, and the reason for that I think is just the psychographic difference between urban dwellers and world welders. Okay. I just think there's just a different profile. And, and I think that, and I think that, again, this points to the fact that the feline market is a different segment of veterinary medicine than is the cable market.

Zack G. (34:10):

Yeah. I mean, everything involved with it is just, it's got its own complexion. You know, it's, it's a different type of owner, different environment, maybe more urban, different living circumstances for the animals. A lot of them are living in doors, primarily, you know, everything is a shift in comparison to dogs and, you know, and it, to some degree, it sounds almost a little bit more like some exotics, even though we don't think of it that way, you know, cause exotics are typically confined more and, and they're also very, like you say, exotic or subtle to diagnose subtle to interpret it. You know, there's a, there's a whole thing with that as well. Sure. Yeah. Different market segment. Yeah.

Dr. Mark (34:51):

But I think in society in general and certainly veterinarians in particular have grouped all of that into veterinary medicine. Right. But I think as time goes on and we get a little bit more sophisticated, we understand it. These are just subsections of the total wall.

Zack G. (35:07):

Do you think that, do you think, I mean, along that, just to extend that thought a little bit, do you think that veterinary medicine in general would do better by getting more specialized? Like, like we've seen in human medicine,

Dr. Mark (35:22):

That's the point of the American board of veterinary practitioners? And again, you know, as we talked about before veterinary medicine is actually sub-specialized as I call it both vertical and horizontal, right. Vertically vertical specialization. I mean, all the specialties that we see in field, the counterparts, the veterinary field, internists surgeons, dermatologists, cardiologists, oncologists, neurologist, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. We have all that. And when I say specialist, I mean, boarded, you know, specialists that have achieved different credentialing than just a DVM degree. Right. That's important. And not just people who call themselves that, I mean, credentialed specialist. Okay. Right. And then there's horizontal specialization and that's sort of where I come in, where there are a species specialists that are credentialed by the American board of veterinary practitioners. We have the feline group, we have the equine group, the horse group. We have the avian group, the birds, we have small mammals and exotics, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Right. So that specialization is also available again, credentialed and recognized by the American board of veterinary specialists. And so people, the public who want that kind of specialized care for their species can seek that and find that. Right.

Zack G. (36:38):

So you think, I mean, it sounds to me like it makes just as much sense as it does anywhere else, that folks like you have decided to focus and get X, you know, become exceptional in one area. It seems that that serves the animals better, serves your business quite well and serves the owners who are looking for the highest quality care they can for their pets.

Dr. Mark (37:04):

And that's the purpose of any specialty. Right?

Zack G. (37:07):

Right. Yeah.

Dr. Mark (37:08):

I mean, you know, and, and, and, and people, people, if they want to seek that level of care, it's available to them.

Zack G. (37:14):

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's great. I think that's great. I mean, I, I can tell by your energy and what you're doing down there and your confidence and all of this, that, that you've got something special going. There's no question

Dr. Mark (37:26):

About it. It's a lot of fun. And I enjoy what I do, Zach. Like I said, I've been doing it for 42 years and it's just been wonderful. That's all I can say.

Zack G. (37:34):

Awesome. Yeah. Well, I want to thank you for being on the show today. And I mean, I certainly learned a lot. I'm actually going to go now, I'm going to be, I'm going to be looking at Mike with a different set of eyes. Now I got to keep an eye on. I listened, you know, mark, I got to keep an eye on him because you know, he's an outdoor cat. He's living with a dog who knows what's happening when I don't, when I don't see him, he's been good this year. He used to spend a lot of time away. Like he'd be gone for a week, gone for five days going for, you know, and I think maybe somebody around here was feeding him or something, but that since has stopped this year, he's been mostly here. He hasn't gone on vacation. I like to say sometimes he goes on vacation, but, but he, uh, he's been here mostly. And you know, but I, but I appreciate that now, after talking to you and anybody that's listening, you know, I have a different sense of what I need to be watching out for. And in terms of, you know, his wellbeing and I may, you know, if something comes up, of course, I'll probably go find somebody that I think is as qualified as you are, if I'm lucky to find here in my area.

Dr. Mark (38:35):

So I'm sure, I'm sure you can find it. You could Google the American board of veterinary practitioners and put your state in there and you'll be able to find something.

Zack G. (38:45):

All right, Dr. Mark, thanks so much for being on the show and I can't wait to see, you know, what the next year brings and, and hopefully no more disasters, no more fires, no more floods, no more hurt. No more pandemics, no zombies, nothing.

Dr. Mark (39:00):

Listen, it's been a real pleasure, Zach. It really has. I enjoyed having you having me on your show and letting me preach the gospel of feline medicine. I, I appreciate that.

Zack G. (39:09):

All right. Cheers. Super, thank you so much. And again, thanks for everybody listening today and we'll see you on the next episode.

VO (39:18):

Thank you for listening to this episode of practice. So subscribe to the podcast. So you don't miss any future episodes for additional help and resources for your practice. Visit Zach greenfields.com to connect with Zach. Visit Zach greenfield.com/zg.