Intro (00:01):

Welcome to practice. Oh, mat where doctors and practice owners share business, lifestyle and marketing stories all well, guiding you to more patients. Here's your host, Zach Britton field.

Zack G. (00:14):

Welcome back to practiceOmatic today's guests. We've got Dr. Tom bank style and he is a 1994 veterinary medicine graduate of Mexico, Michigan state university throughout his career. He's been a lecturer writer, consultant, associate veterinarian practice owner, and team leader. He leads veterinary United along with co-founder Julie bank stall, currently serving now 18 practices, uh, for boarding and daycare centers and, and get those guys over 350 team members in Southeastern Michigan. So Thompson charge of a pretty big operation. He believes in providing multiple modalities for clients with a holistic private practice model, and he continues to focus on providing complete and individual patient care and exceptional client service within an environment of team mentorship, coaching and evolution. His current personal and professional mission statement is to inspire, empower, and lead. Welcome Dr. Tom, so Glock

Dr. Thomas (01:16):

On Zack. It's a pleasure to be here, so

Zack G. (01:19):

I'm so happy to have you on the show and, and it's nice to get somebody on the show. Like I said, that has a high view of the veterinary industry. You've got a big enough footprint there in Michigan to be seeing things a lot differently. I think then folks that are on the front lines, but you still haven't lost touch with what's going on at the practice level, which I think is phenomenal. So tell, tell me and tell our guests a little bit about the backstory. How did you go from graduating in 94 at Michigan state and suddenly find yourself here with a portfolio of practices in that region?

Dr. Thomas (01:57):

Fantastic. So, all right, sec, here we go. So, you know, I guess a little bit pre 94. So, um, you know, I've always had a passion, uh, like many of our veterinarian, uh, compatriots for medicine. So, uh, pretty young, I started working in pet stores and finding a need for exotic animal husbandry. And so I was very passionate about bringing exotics to the veterinary field. And so, um, I also got a little bit of experience in, um, management, so I got to be a manager. Um, you know, I now say we manage processes, we coach people, but I learned about managing processes, uh, back then and worked through pet stores, um, as a driver to get to the point of being a exotic animal veterinarian. And so, um, supported that through Michigan state, uh, 94, um, I took a one-year jaunt down to Fairfax, Virginia, um, great place.

Dr. Thomas (02:50):

Uh, I got to work in a multi-doctor practice, uh, taking a year to, um, work with a doctor on exotic animal medicine. Uh, and then, um, it was kind of an interesting journey. So the doc said, Hey, Tom, are you going to go to California? Are you going to go to Florida? Uh, I said, I'm going back to Michigan. He said, Michigan, there's no exotic sit Michigan. So, and I was like, no, no, no, no, we're going to do this. So, um, my old mentor, uh, took me back, uh, under the wing and 95. Uh, he allowed me to build an exotic practice, um, you know, way back then we did it in foot traffic. So I went to all the pet stores. Um, I built them out husbandry sheets. Uh, I started seeing their pets on my time off, um, and you know, built a little bit of a fast forward.

Dr. Thomas (03:35):

The exotic practice we have now where one of our main hospitals has 8,000 active, uh, exotic clients. So, um, we went a long way from that start. Um, so, um, so 95 to 99, I worked with my old boss Lynn and great stuff about, uh, primarily dog and cat medicine and surgery, uh, in addition to, um, watching how he interacted with clients and, you know, some of his communication style. Um, and then in 99, um, my wife and I had just got our first house, uh, and we got a letter. Yes, we got those back then. Um, and it said, you know, Hey, sale of the practice. And so it's kind of a great story. So it was a Sunday and I remember it very clearly. And so we went out to the practice and it's a renovated home. Um, and it was an older gentleman.

Dr. Thomas (04:21):

He came out and, uh, very kindly was like, how are you? I'm like, I am well, uh, yeah, I'm excited to be here. And so he's like, come on in. And so he showed me the practice and, you know, it was absolutely not what I thought. Right. I mean, I came in with this kind of progressive mindset and, you know, we were washing drapes and doing some different things. And so, um, and at the end of it, I was kind of still processing the visit and he came to me and said, well, what did you think? And, and I said, well, I appreciate everything you've put together here. And he goes, great. Cause you're the fifth person. I hated the other four and I'm selling you the practice. So go home, get a signature from your dad. And I will sell you this practice on land contracts.

Dr. Thomas (04:58):

So I arrive home. My wife says, um, how was the visit? I said, fantastic. We bought the practice. Right. So that was my first marital discussion that we really got deep on. So she's like you did what and without, Ooh. So, um, so we ended up, we did, so it was a walk-in practice dog cat. And so, um, you know, that was kind of maybe my first step in saying, Hey, like step back, breathe, watch and listen. And, um, you know, I really got to appreciate slow and learn about walk-ins. And at the same time I integrated the appointments. I was seeing an exotic, because my old boss was like, yeah, take them. Right. I don't see the value. It takes extra people. It's all good. Um, and so we learned about walk-in and, um, boy, those were some fun days. I probably worked a hundred hour weeks, realistically sounds a little scary now, but it wasn't so much back then.

Dr. Thomas (05:47):

We had people wrapped around the hospital and, um, you know, three lines. And so, but, you know, I learned a lot and, um, we were able to bring a couple of new grads on they're still with me today, uh, actually celebrating over 20 years with us. Um, that came on back then. And so I became a teacher. And so I got to, um, you know, I guess I was the student first put me on the path of the teacher, but, um, you know, I always feel right that, you know, we're, we're learning so that right. We can teach. So, um, and, uh, in basically a couple of years, we were just busting at the seams. So Julie and I said, you know, what's our vision, what does a community need? And so we found a large plot of land in 2003. Um, and we built, um, Parkway, small animal and exotic hospital, uh, and the animal activity center.

Dr. Thomas (06:34):

Um, and that was a big driver. I'm always very drawn and, um, driven by, uh, you know, what does the community need, right? What can we do better in Batman? What does a community need? And so, um, the animal activity center was 8,000 square feet with glass block and it has two waterfalls and piped in music and, um, you know, 24 hour care on, you know, I wanted the holistic experience. So we put in daycare, we put in day camp, we had groomers, um, we have training. Um, and then right next door, we had built out this wonderful hospital with, you know, we were super excited cause we went from a three room hospital to a 10 room hospital, um, where, you know, we could actually no, not hit all those. Um, and so, um, you know, we built the, um, you know, so that practice, you know, we, and we built out some of our ancillary services, um, continued to coach and train, um, you know, bringing in the exotic, we really focused on great dog cat and exotic medicine back then.

Dr. Thomas (07:31):

Um, we built up a little bit of our ultrasound services. Um, and then, you know, some of our doctors as they've continued to evolve, um, uh, alternative medicine, Eastern Western herbal, glandular therapy, um, laser therapy, Beamer therapy, that was not a car car, it's not the car therapy. So, um, and so, uh, you know, then 2008 came and, you know, I've heard some other guests on your show talk about 2008. That was, uh, definitely a aha year. Right. We built this 20,000 square foot beautiful, you know, place to be. Um, and, and, you know, oh, wait came. So we had a kind of let's step back, right. I always step back and think about it. And, and that was a real big year for my wife and I, Julie and I to think about like now, what does the community need? Right. What do we need?

Dr. Thomas (08:18):

And so, um, we still had our old building, the little renovated house I just talked about. And, um, so we thought about that and one of my really great clients, um, they had been with me from the beginning. Uh, they came in that three little apricots poodles, um, I'll start with the same letter and, you know, and they were instead of coming in for like, um, ideal care, right. Never judge, but they were always somebody that did everything we recommended for, you know, the best interest of their guys, girls actually. Um, and you know, they just got really impacted, right. Cause automotive, and at least in the Detroit Metro area was pretty impacted. Really tough. Yes. So, um, so they, you know, I thought about that and talk to Julia and we said, what could we do? So we actually spread our team out. We reopened our old building, we called it affordable veterinary care center.

Dr. Thomas (09:07):

Um, and we made an affordable cost model. So basically for business owners, I cut costs 40% of that location over our cost threshold that we had at the new office, um, same doctor, same care, but we wanted it to be affordable for community in 2008. And then, you know, I've done this sometimes talking about pushing through fear where we moved to in, in the location, a large hospital went out of business because of management, right. Because the management got stressed in oh eight as well. Um, and everyone down my street was like, we have no vet, we have no vet. So my, um, Julie again had some great vision and she was like, I see this building, I'm actually sitting in it today. Uh, and it was an old strip mall, literally in a sheriff sale. And she's like, this has great bones. I remember those words.

Dr. Thomas (09:50):

And so, um, we stripped an entire strip mall that same year and we opened, um, you know, our animal hospital, Chesterfield and tree lodge pet resort, which was the same model about around complete individual care. Um, but we did it a little smaller, little smarter with a little bit of a different theme on, and then, you know, the rest of the space was, you know, from a storage, uh, you know, and a rent out component, which now is where our hub is for our office team and our home team. Um, and really we really focused on those three primary sites and in 2015, um, we were, um, I really love our strategic partners and, you know, some people call them vendors. I call them strategic partners because many of them have been with me 22 years. So, um, I think they're integral and, you know, and I think in our field, we really have to really think about relationships and that they're important and that those guys are valuable.

Dr. Thomas (10:42):

Um, and they recommended a practice to come talk to us. And so, um, the, um, Karen came over and she had a conversation and said, you know, I love my team and my daughter works at my team and would you be open to, you know, taking on my team? And I was like, wow. Right. We had, you know, did a, like a Denovo rebrand, I guess, and a build-out and another build-out. And I was like, you know, this would be the first time we're taking on a team. Right. And so, um, so we were like, you know what, yes, we would be open to that. And they were great cultural alignment, um, and had a lot shared common beliefs. And so 2015, we welcomed them on our team and holy moly. Right. And then, um, you know, people were like, Hey, they really care. They care about their people.

Dr. Thomas (11:26):

And so that's really kind of how it continued to grow. And, um, and we're a little different, um, you know, so from 2015, till now, we went from, you know, basically four to 18. Um, and you know, it's, it's basically the people have come to us. We actually do not have a business development person. Um, you know, our practices are still referred to and, or have heard about us. Um, and I'm, I'm pretty proud of that and, and proud of the relationships that we have with those guys. Um, and a lot of it's around looking at each individual practice too, right. We don't have a model, right. It doesn't have to be 1.5 million, three full-time equivalents it's, you know, Hey, what is your story? Right. Um, you know, what is your culture? Do you serve the community? And, you know, will you coming into veterinary United, make us a stronger work family?

Dr. Thomas (12:11):

And so over that time, we've picked on a, you know, a feline specific practice. Um, we have, you know, evolved a mobile, um, practice, um, dog cat, exotic alternative medicine. So we've continued to grow. And, you know, actually two of those doctors I talked about that have, you know, come in our group and have with our group are currently getting boarded. Um, and you know, and so, which is fantastic. And, um, so from 1521 to, we kind of built out our hub team, which we call it the hub, because we don't like to use the word corporate. I have nothing wrong with corporate. We're all incorporated if we're in business, but you know, our field is the hub, right. Because we need to be the hub for these teams. Um, and you know, and so, you know, we built out our hub team as well.

Dr. Thomas (12:53):

And so, um, what's pretty cool is if you model what you're looking for, uh, in the world, I think people come to you and, you know, we we'd, luckily just got a board of neurologists that joined our team, um, because he believes in what we do here. Right. And, um, his it's a great way to kind of maybe wrap this up. He said, you know, I don't want to go work somewhere where it says inspire, empower, and lead on the wall. I want to know that we live it. And I want to know that we bring it and, you know, from what I've heard and what I've seen, I believe you guys do that. And, um, you know, I get goosebumps on my arms and I talk about it cause I mean, that's one of the most powerful things, right. Is that, you know, really believing in those, right.

Dr. Thomas (13:26):

That they're not on a wall. And, um, you know, and so people always ask like, where are you going to go with that? Um, and you know, so I always say, I guess, you know, I always believe kinda a little bit, God has a plan, um, you know, as big as we can instill steward for our people. Right. And, and, and I love the word steward. I used to be a servant leadership guy. Um, I kinda liked the word of stewarding our steward leadership, you know, using what we've got today, uh, to the betterment of all right now. And I try to frame that way every day. Um, and that's kind of how we work with our teams every day. And so, um, you know, I'm blessed to be where we are and continuing to grow. Um, and you know, that's a little bit kind of about our model.

Zack G. (14:03):

Yeah. That's amazing. One of the things I picked up on and in that story is kind of one of your consistent pivot points. And I think, and you said it a little differently than, than I've expressed it in the past, but I think one of the most important questions you can ask and in the middle of any business decision, whether it's acquisition or a new service, or even remodeling or changing assign, or really anything is to test it against that simple question, is this going to be good for the customer? And I think you expressed that as is this going to be good for our community or what does our community need? I think people lose sight of that a lot. And, and, but when they get their feet back on the ground that they share with their customer, then that's when amazing things can start to happen.

Dr. Thomas (14:53):

Fantastic. And there are drivers, right? So if we look at what they need within that own grouping of where they come in or where they come from, um, I think that helps drive the vision. Absolutely. And I like to tell people, right, it's about a college, right. So it's absolutely have to be good about them, but also just be good for our team and good for the practice. And then, you know, I think our role as a leader is how do you get those to be correct? Right. So what they need, and what's good for the team and taking those together and you know, how you blend that and create the vision and cast it, uh, I think is one of the, you know, the things as leaders that you know is kind of in our responsibility.

Zack G. (15:28):

I think people, I think people can get lost in that a little bit, cause they go, oh, well, it's good for my customer if I work for free and they go, well, wait, no, it's not because you won't be there tomorrow. You know, you'll be homeless and broke. And then the customer has nowhere to go. So, you know, there's, there's a balance and you touched on that, you know, that, that what's good for the customer is usually what's good for the business and good for the people at the business. And that everybody is in, you know, a healthy balance both financially, but also in terms of time, effort, and lifestyle and all of those things that we all struggle with. And, um, but it really starts with that when you're running a business, you're there to serve the community, like you said, and if you can figure out how to do that, you get quickly recognized like you have, you know, that's, that's what I've witnessed and experienced for sure. So, so Tom, tell me now, how do you see, I mean, you know, it's unavoidable that I ask you a COVID question here.

Dr. Thomas (16:24):

Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Right. I know it's been a tough season for everybody, right. So,

Zack G. (16:28):

Well, it's been different than oh eight, like just to compare and contrast. Oh right. Oh eight. Everybody started had a lot of money and, and financial resources kind of yanked out from underneath of them with the whole housing market collapsed. This has been different because the government quickly, you know, it's almost like PTSD right. In Washington. They're like, oh wait, we can't have that happen again. So we'll just pour money into the economy which we've been doing. Right. Right. My, what I'm hearing from a lot of offices is that they feel swamped because COVID has kind of been like this weird, perfect storm for veterinary clinics that people were at home. So they started either paying attention to their pets more or acquiring new, you know, family members, furry, family members, and then having not spending money on vacations. And some of the other things that are just being out, if you will, I mean, for that matter gas, right. So the household budget change and what I'm hearing is a lot of offices feel overwhelmed now, is that where you guys are at? Or how are you guys handling that? And what's it like up there and Southern Michigan,

Dr. Thomas (17:35):

Right? Yeah, absolutely. So I think I try to reframe the team that, you know, the last 18 months have been a hard season on them. So, and I like to call it a season because seasons change and seasons and right. So, and you know, I think we to remember that, because I think the biggest thing that COVID has taught me as a leader right on is that if anything, we need to communicate more, uh, and we have to be more in touch to our teams and to our clients. Right. So I know you can be a marketing guy and, you know, I've told the marketing team, like to the clients, we need a message of patience and transparency. Right. So, um, to our teams, as a leader, um, we need to listen. Um, we need to let them know they're not alone. Uh, we have to make sure our teams are communicating.

Dr. Thomas (18:18):

Right. So because everyone took a little different, right. I mean, I, I, I listened to somebody that talked about everybody was in world shock, right. Because everything was disrupted. Right. Every pattern was disrupted. And so, you know, it's kind of a, you know, a situation I was stuck in to, um, actually our, uh, doc today, you know, we used to be like, Hey, it was a bad day. We'd go up. We come down. Maybe it was a bad couple of days, but we'd go up and come down. COVID kind of took us to this threshold. So then like every day is just what raises you over the threshold? And we knew we haven't new baseline. Yeah. Right. And, and in our world, I think in, in veterinary medicine, in general, we don't do a great job, even from the vet school side of teaching adaptive strategies.

Dr. Thomas (18:58):

Right. Like how do they come back? Right. And, and I talked to a first year munchie that I have, and, you know, it was really impactful to me because she said, you know, I don't, can I be a mom and a vet? I was like, yes, you're a first year med student. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Um, you know, and, you know, and, and so, you know, I think that, you know, we have two things, right. I think veterinary medicine, um, we have to talk about communication and, and we shouldn't talk about compartmentalizing and locking it down because what goes in, must come out sometime. So, um, you know, and I think that COVID really stretched that because, you know, we're dealing with a lot of what emotions, right? Our clients are at a different emotional state. Our teams are in emotional state, we're in a stress state because we have, you know, staff that might be sick.

Dr. Thomas (19:41):

Um, you know, obviously there's some shortages on hiring, um, you know, and, you know, it's kind of a, you know, not elastic economy really doesn't matter anymore if you don't have anyone to run the economy. So, um, you know, and I think that doctors, um, you know, even within our group, right. I mean, we actually had doctors retire early. Um, we had some doctors that had to step out or need some flexibility. So in S you know, maybe going to a wellness clinic to work on vaccines, suddenly your kids are at home, right? Yes. Yeah. Or right. Yeah. That is true. So, yeah, suddenly you were home. Right. And then I had college, middle school and grade school, and my younger ones are like, can we send them back home? We were used to, or back to school, we were used to them not being here.

Dr. Thomas (20:19):

So, yes. So I mean, you know, disruption of pattern, I think, was the biggest thing. And, you know, I don't think we've learned and done a good job teaching and coaching, um, how to handle the emotional side of veterinary medicine. We don't shouldn't compartmentalize emotions. We digest them or we ride them their energy in motion. Um, and I think that COVID escalated that. And so I think that, you know, for me caretaking the teams has been the hardest because, you know, I couldn't be in front of them and we couldn't have a meetings. And there's a part about in-person communication and energy, um, that is different than a zoom or not seeing people. Right. And so I think we had to work harder on connection. Uh, it required the sites that might've not been as strong to do more one-on-ones with the team to hear feedback, um, you know, to provide coaching, to be flexible. So again, right. That doc that's really stressed. Maybe we do wellness vaccines, and that's okay. Right. Maybe we go to the wellness clinic, maybe you do mobile for a day and see seven appointments instead of seeing 30. Right. Right. So I think that, um, I think it's done some good things. I'll probably get thrown off the podcast, but I mean, I think there's been some good things, right. Because I mean,

Zack G. (21:27):

Tom, Tom, good things always come when we're challenged. Right. It's just hard to see them when we're in the middle of the

Dr. Thomas (21:33):

Absolutely there's distress and yeah. We have to be stressed to grow. Right. So a lot of your story, right?

Zack G. (21:39):

Yeah. So what are some of the things that you think are positives that might come out of this for your organization?

Dr. Thomas (21:45):

Awesome. Ah, top of mind. Um, I think that we, you know, as an organization, right. Uh, learned how to do tele-coaching, uh, to do hybrid leadership meetings. Um, we were, I, it sounds kind of funny, but dependent on the in-person piece, right. It was so much of our culture. We had to really figure it out and it, what it allowed us to do is say, Hey, okay, maybe we can take that practice three hours away now. Right. Where before we probably were not, well, maybe not because how are they going to fit our model of all of this one-on-one time, uh, communication, coaching, and leadership coaching. So I think it pushed up what I like to call tele-coaching, so, and helped us use that platform probably years ahead of where we were. So, you know, from a growth standpoint, if we found a good practice with a good culture, I'm comfortable, now we could probably take them on maybe even out of state.

Dr. Thomas (22:31):

So I think that was a good thing. Um, I think number two, for the teams, it really made us rethink, right. And I actually did this with all of my teams. I said, throw out everything we do and I'll use that generalization appropriately. And I said, I want you guys to rethink the entire team and the flow from the back to the front. And I think what we've done is empowered our licensed veterinary technicians, right. To run their own columns, to the best of their ability and within obviously state regulation. Um, but you know, it's been an empowering part of re-looking at teams and re-looking at team efficiencies, right. Run now the T columns. So, um, you'd have some of those second vaccines it's allowed in your state. Right. They, they might be able to do some of those take workload off the doctor still help our, you know, our clients get in. Right. Um, so I think that redeveloping the team, re-empowering the team, um, I think we're going to come out of this with efficiencies because we had to do it. Right. We never really ran short,

Zack G. (23:27):

Came out. Oh, eight more efficient. Yes.

Dr. Thomas (23:30):

But I think, oh eight really had this financial piece. Yeah. It was light. I mean, you still

Zack G. (23:35):

Could get lean or die.

Dr. Thomas (23:37):

Yes, that's true. Yes. Yeah. And I didn't renegotiate a payment. Yeah. I do it in that year. But, but I mean, you know, I think though, then right. It was only the financial piece. Right. And while financial health and redevelopment, for some people, it was very an emotional part. Um, I think this is so much more because, you know, if you look at your, kind of your wellness wheel red, you know, how has your spiritual, physical, mental family and professional health, um, this hit every side of the wheel, right? I mean, you, you might not have money in oh eight, but you could go home and meditate. You can go to church. Right. I mean, you could go to the drive in movie if you saved up. Right. But, but I think now we couldn't. Right. So now what do you do? Right. Like, so, um, so I, I do think though, um, it's building some resiliency. I think it's shown us what we have to work on. Right? Like I'm coming out of this going, Hey guys, we've got to continue to rethink our team's efficiency, resiliency. Um, and you know, what communication and emotional wellbeing have to even be more focused than what we do here. Right. So I want to build up our kind of our NLP positive psychology pieces in our coaching with our doctor teams and our teams in general. So, um, so that was kind of the wins, I think, in COVID

Zack G. (24:42):

Let me throw you a curve ball here. Let's go. Do you, what do you, do you think that there might be a little bit of, um, I don't want to say backlash or maybe over overuse of technology and technology solutions as a result of COVID where we don't get back to and what you described very well, more in person, more human based interactions, and that we suddenly have adjusted our baseline to ax to allow and accept less of that and let technology and technical solutions, you know, sort of invade what I consider to be fairly hallowed ground. You think we have a risk of that going forward here now that we've like you say, been rattled in such a huge way.

Dr. Thomas (25:34):

I think this is where I'm going to put some, I believe in veterinary medicine. So, um, you know, I think that that's going to settle back into the human part. Um, I think that, you know, it's kind of funny, right? They say every business either has to have AI or die. Right. You know, by whatever 20 something. Right. It's just the new, like, you know, the world's gonna end in 2000,

Zack G. (25:51):

It's like, you know, I'm gonna write it down

Dr. Thomas (25:54):

Right. Every business or die. So, um, you know, so I think that it will actually help us on the parts that, um, I think some doctors will retain that. I think I'm seeing that self sorting piece. Um, I, and I think what's gonna have to, you know, I think my biggest surprise. Right. And, and you know, I'm not a lot of things surprise me, but like on a lot of the groups I saw was that, you know, veterinarians were more saying, right. Like, you know, let's leave the clients outside. It's more pleasant without them in here. Let's just take the animals. Like I'm a social person. I like,

Zack G. (26:26):

I've heard that one, like 10 times.

Dr. Thomas (26:28):

I'm like, what? So, but now if you look at like, you know, we use predictive index and canine colors to kind of help our doctors, you know, each of us understand each other. And if you look the, you know, there's like in our whole doctor team of like 40 plus, like there's only like maybe six people that their true drivers are people. Right. And that's common right. In medicine, right. We're taught to be internal thinkers and analyze and diagnose and scratch it off. You know, that's the part I want to come back a little faster. I think it will come back. Um, I guess I was just the most surprised in that piece. Right. But I think that telemedicine, to be honest with you, I think most of them are gonna roll back into the same telemedicine aspects in the general practice level. Um, you know, and, and I constantly hear this from like, I'll bring new people at the hub and they're like, you guys are so behind, like you get, you know, that veterinary medicine, what is going on.

Dr. Thomas (27:17):

Right. We got to get more savvy with the TAC. Right. Um, so I, I'm hoping it's more of a, Hey, this is what's available. We had to use it. Let's learn and grow, but I don't think that will, I think that our roll back. So that's just my opinion. Um, I think what I'm more concerned about is the, what I consider hallowed ground is the client patient relationship. And so that client relationship piece we have with our clients, um, you know, I want to see that come back. Right. And I think that that is hallow ground. And I think that our communication with the client and why we're like one of the top, you know, client loved professions it's because we communicate with clients. So, uh, you know, and we keep a black and now we are going to maintain some curbside for people that want to do that.

Dr. Thomas (27:57):

You know, we offer different options in the lobby, half, you know, barrier, half, not if our doctors still would like the clients to mask or they'd like to mask. Absolutely. You know, we follow the, you know, state, federal local county guidelines, but outside of that, if those are open, we allow choice. And so I think that's really important right, during this, you know, COVID season is, you know, allow doctors to choice, to feel comfortable. Um, and then, you know, but yeah, I think that we'll come back to, I just, for me, that was one of my biggest like surprises, because I'm like, you know, crazy social, right. Like, you know, I've got from clients all day, but, um, you know, it was, you know, just interesting to me, that's probably my most interesting moment of COVID like, you know, watching a bunch of docs, be like, that's okay. They can stay out there and we'll sell the client. Yeah.

Zack G. (28:39):

I mean, they are, they are, I mean, I've been hearing that quite a bit and I think, you know, I get to overlay lots of different conversations. So one of the other pieces of that, that sounds kind of interesting to me is that for a cat only practice and you have at least one in your portfolio, the vibe is so different, right? It's quiet. There's no barking dogs. It's low, it's completely low key environment comparative to a dog practice. And it sort of makes me wonder if some of what these vets are saying about leaving the owners out curbside is just sheerly or reduction in like kind of the chaos level in the building. And because there was so much other chaos going on in their lives because of COVID, like I said, disruptions at home kids out of school, you know, we all know the whole, the menu of stuff that maybe not having people in the building was the only place

Dr. Thomas (29:38):

Was the shining point was

Zack G. (29:40):

Like, there's, it was, it makes it more predictable, more peaceful. They only have to interact. And then there's also of course, taking out that risk, which is, you know, are we really going to get ourselves in trouble with an infection and so forth? So I think a lot in a lot of ways, I think my interpretation of that, um, expression that I've heard, you know, through my talks and my clients and you've heard on your team is actually probably more, you know, bobble of the circumstances we're in not

Dr. Thomas (30:11):

Like the true intrinsic, you know, characteristics of what they believe in the long-term, you know? Cause I, I D I think, I think, I think it's, there's certainly a certain segment of veterinarians that are sort of introverted and I think that's known, but the idea that you're not going to get interaction with the owner and you're just happily to work behind closed doors. If you think about that over the longterm, it definitely starts to seem a little weird, right? Yes. I think clients are, are bringing that up too. Right. Like, and let me set that back to two things, right. If it's about the health of the team that sacred saying, right. Like that's absolutely. We got to do it. Um, once that's opened up though, um, I just think the client relationships important because what happens, right? It's like, you know, the aunt you never talked to and it just goes on and on for years, and then you never have a conversation.

Dr. Thomas (31:01):

It's kind of like the client experience. Right. Cause you know, they're out there and the team's like Mrs. Jones is mad so up, Mr. Fred's been here 10 years and we can't get them in next appointment's November 27th. And they're like, they're mad. And, and so I think that that's, you know, that frustration that the clients have, and we have to remember it, like I try to coach teams and clients from the same thing. Right. We only have a couple of pathways from frustration. We can go to curiosity right. And ask a good how, what questions or we can go into negative emotion. Right. Negative emotions. Fair. Right. Anger, anger, shame, guilt, fear. It's fine. I mean, again, right. Digest it, not, you know, compress it. So, um, but you know, that's kind of, you know, we're like, oh, that client's angry right now. I think it's a move away.

Dr. Thomas (31:40):

I mean, 70% of the us population is a move away anyways. Right. We only have 30% of people that really moved towards in the U S so, so it's kind of the intrinsic us thing to move away. And, and I always tell people, you can move away nicely, you know, but you're still not moving towards that goal or so, so I think the longer we don't bridge communication with clients, I think the harder it becomes, like, you know, the old auntie. So, but, um, you know, I think we will too though, right. I mean, it's just intuitive to go back to some of that. And, and I challenged, like, I don't know about the rest of the veterinarians that you ask, but I think like if I was raised with the three ring rule right. Which is like, if your phone rings three times, pick it up or you do. So, um, you know, I think we may not have clients in the building. Right. But I mean, our phones were ringing Ignacio. Right. So, and you know, I call it like phone apathy is like one of our goals to address. Right. Because people are just like, it's ringing. I'm like, yeah. Pick it up. That's a good,

Zack G. (32:33):

Well, it's like, they get desensitized. If it rings all the time, it's not that meaningful anymore.

Dr. Thomas (32:37):

Right. They were desensitized apathy. So like, they were just like, no, we're good. So that phone can ring. They're going to be fine. They'll call back. No, they don't. Right. So one of our practices, the client even said, right, I've waited, they waited three and a half hours. And the guy was like, I don't care about waiting. That was not my point, but I called your office 29 times while I was waiting and no one picked up the phone. Right. And, and so, you know, I just, I think we just had to be thoughtful. I'm not saying, you know, that I'm not trying to sound cliche about putting ourselves in the client's shoes, but you know, they're in the same environment we are. Um, and you know, I think their goal is just to get care for their pet. Right. And our goal is to care for their pet.

Dr. Thomas (33:14):

So I just think if we keep that in alignment and be a little bit more thoughtful about it and then, you know, create realistic frames. Right. I mean, we still have to refer out at the end of the day, but we track it. And so it's verifiable. So if our doctor feels like we saw everything, we're like, no, we referred 37 things today. Wow. Really? I feel like we saw everybody. No, we for 37 that's okay. Right. Because you're important too. So it helps them break through the generalizations, you know? And I think the big thing with COVID and the docs is like, they don't see an end. Right. So, um, and you know, and I get it right. I mean, we added all those pets last year. They're not going away. Right. So we're going to have to normalize that period. Right. So, but you know, the what's happening right now is gonna, you know, it's going to be okay.

Dr. Thomas (33:52):

Right. And as a leader and as a doc, you know, and unfortunately you get DBM on your shirt and that's, you know, assumed automatic leader, but you know, leadership is coached and leadership is learned. And so, um, you know, and I think if we help coach your docs into leadership and they'll help our teams get into leadership when we model it, that'll just kind of help everybody along the line. Right. And, and kind of improve the client experience. So, and I see that changing already. So I think we're going to change, but that was, that was just an interesting COVID thought.

Zack G. (34:19):

Um, I mean, you know, I'm loving, digging into all the different perspectives on this, and I appreciate you sharing what your thoughts are on it. Do tell, tell me what types of things, what actions did you take to sew up the gap in communication between your frontline staff and the client pool? Like what, what particular things did you leap to do?

Dr. Thomas (34:44):

Excellent. I think that some of the leap too quickly in the beginning, I mean, we did get social media in front, right. So we had to leverage all our social media platforms. We really spoke to our clients a lot in Facebook. Um, just for us, that seemed to be the primary platform. Um, we also, um, you know, we did post, you know, about controlling your energy, right. Or, you know, you're responsible for the energy you're bringing into the space. So, you know, those kind of went up on doors or teams know that we were also, you know, trying to ask the client to respect it as much as our team. Um, and you know, we had to take our, um, manager quote unquote, we call our site leader. Cause again, I think when you lead, you coach people and manage processes, but a lot of people call him their practice manager, um, and put them into the lobby environment.

Dr. Thomas (35:27):

Right. So they had a shift time, um, into the lobby environment to, um, really look to, I think it exposed a lot of, um, you know, expediting and some of the expediting and the efficiencies on the floor. Um, so, so that's what we did. So we put leadership in front. Um, we coached our teams on client communication. Uh, we really had to bring back teams into some re coaching on answering phones and helping the front. I know it's the classic thing, but, um, and then using social media to communicate with our clients. And so, um, that was, I guess, off the top of the cough, that's what we did. Um, you know, we changed some of our messaging on our hold lines, right. To let people know. And then, um, I think I mentioned, but I might've been four was the, um, also talking about social media about patients and transparency.

Dr. Thomas (36:10):

So, you know, just asking clients for patients, um, helping them know what's happening in the back, the transparency piece. Um, not only for their own, like yes I'm okay. Cause, you know, I frame this for someone in our team that has a little one-year old and I'm like, all right, just picture it. Like you go to your pediatrician and she, they walk outside and they're like, Hey, give me your baby. And then they locked the door and they go in and they say, don't worry about it. We're going to draw blood. Right. And you're, visualing like three pokes and, and you know, like, are the kids still not back an hour later and get the doors locked? And so, you know, like I believe, you know, it's a good

Zack G. (36:43):

Way to really like bottom line it though, you know? I mean, it's great.

Dr. Thomas (36:47):

Right. And she was traumatized at the end of my like, you know, story. Right. Cause her face is like, oh my God. I'm like, but that's part of what they're doing. Right. I mean, 90% of people see them as a kid. Right. So, um, but so I think it was just some re coaching. Um, and again, I think more so that, you know, from the client side, I know we're talking about team, but I think team coaching for understanding has to get done too. Um, and then, you know, on the client side, letting them know, right. Like, Hey, this is where the veterinary community is at. Right. And not necessarily always sharing set posts, but talking uniquely about your practice and what we're doing and how we're doing it. And you know, um, I think if people live the message, they respect you, they love you. I mean, and if they know that, you know, the doc that they've gone to for 20 years tells a story about, you know, seeing 46 things that day, I think they can pretty much put together on their own that that's pretty exhausting. Right. And that we're going to try to have to triage the most important things. And so, you know, tell your story, I think is really important right now. So

Zack G. (37:43):

Yeah, I think, I mean, I agree with all of that and I think that, you know, you putting social media out front, I think getting out in front of all of this has really been critical. I think if you, the danger was to hang out, you know, and let the pot start boiling and not, you know, get in front of the messaging and start making decisions. I think, you know, where I saw some people struggle was they refuse to make a move. You know, they didn't want to call anything because it was hard, you know? And granted, I sympathize with that a little bit, cause it was hard to make some of these calls. Like it's hard to say, okay, we're not going to let anybody in the lobby. I mean, it seems at that at the time that we were all having that conversation, it seemed very dramatic because there's no precedence for it.

Dr. Thomas (38:28):

Absolutely. Right. Well, think about that. Right. All right. Let's talk about that met again. Right. So, you know, on a single practice level, you know, you've done it the same way for all these years. Right. And so, and you have your, your process. Right. You know, we don't have to go technical and call it an SOP or whatever, but, but, um, you know, it's more SOP during COVID, but that's all right. So, so P was, you know, I mean we changed, we counted, we had to change our processes within, after COVID, after March, right. March, April, may. I think we tracked, we implemented 46 new processes. Right. And if you think about like initiating a new process and how long it takes your team 90 days and you know, six months to cement, like think about changing that on your team, like 46 different processes.

Dr. Thomas (39:10):

Right. So, and that was everything from checkout to outside checkout to putting signs up outside the, you know, the, the posts outside the protective gear where you're going to get it like, well, who asked to wear it? What is the state saying today? What's the feds, what's the county, you know, get your table. Check-in like all your process of COVID cleaning and scanning that in and store it, there were all of that going on. Right. Like, um, you know, so yeah. I mean, when we're wondering why this season was a little bit different, I mean, you know, yeah. That's a lot change. Right. So,

Zack G. (39:41):

And, but it was hard. I think that's the challenge that it takes real leadership in the middle of all of that sort of, you know, what really can be characterized as kind of just negative inputs, like challenge after challenge. I mean, literally it was like one challenge, you know, every morning for like, for real, for, for like three straight months, it was like, absolutely you're getting punched in the nose like every day for months on end with, you know, and moving goalposts all the time. Right today, the rules are this, then it's this, then it's this, then this, this, and for veterinary offices, you know, that are essential. It was like, you had to keep, you know, shifting your playbook. Like you said, your SOP book to, to figure out how to handle each one of these adjustments on the fly. And, but you know, maybe that's, you know, Thomas, you and I kind of hunting this conversation for some of the positives. One of them might be that we now have more flexible. And as you say, resilient teams, that the next time somebody throws a winger.

Dr. Thomas (40:45):

Right, right, right. It's not going to

Zack G. (40:47):

Be that big of a deal. Right. So it's like, like in two years there'll be like a hail storm or something. Right. And we'll shut down the roads. Everybody will just be like, ah, it's nothing compared to COVID, you know? Exactly.

Dr. Thomas (41:00):

Well, it wasn't change management. Right. Talk about continuous improvement. Right. Like, you know, only got those changes, but you'd have to filter it for us through, you know, at the time maybe 36 doctors that were seeing. Right. So what we considered essential vaccines, we threw back on our doctors to make that decision. Right. So, you know, it's not just, Hey, this is it. If you're in a collaborative environment, you have to also run that by the team and make sure they have buy-in and that they feel safe and that they feel heard and that we made those adjustments. So, you know, so it's not just that one day or, you know, or you got that one day or you just got done talking to 18 docs that day and now day two, it changes and you got called those 18 and still get to the other 18. Um, you know, I mean, that was, that was, that was some, I mean, they, they, they worked tough, so, um, you know, yeah. Do you feel like,

Zack G. (41:43):

Um, from that regard, do you feel like COVID sucked a lot of time resource and like, you know, basically deployable resources in terms of staff, you know, money and just your time and effort, did it get, did a lot of that get pulled away from what could have been focused on animal care and client care?

Dr. Thomas (42:02):

Oh, absolutely. Right. I mean our, um, our chief admin Dana, who's fantastic. I mean, I bet you, 85% of her entire year went to COVID. Right. Cause we, again, reading the laws, reading the stuff, coming out and making sure we're in compliance. So, you know, administratively that was just sucked up. Right. Um, for us anyways, we only brought on the kitty clinic that year. Right. So we made a decision that we weren't going to bring on, you know, hospitals or, you know, a number of hospitals that year. Uh, we asked them to wait for us because, you know, we had to take care of teams and that was, you know, slowed down. And then I think the third thing, yeah, right. I mean, there's no strategic partners coming out and doing lunch and learns, uh, some pair country will launch, but nobody really came in and talked to everybody.

Dr. Thomas (42:40):

So it was like, Hey, the all on ones here. Cool. It's on the shelf now there's six clients waiting and get them in. Um, so, you know, so I think that all the stuff we normally had to facilitate, and I think that's where right now we're like, breathe, what do we need to get back to? What are our monthly lunch and learns, what are our coaching? I remember this moment where I'm like, you know what, we have to get back to doing our medical stuff. Right? Like, cause our quarterly meetings with doctors we're behind and our big, what we call better Palooza where we're gonna take all 350 people in one room and talk about what our goals are and what we're doing. Like all of that got put on the back burner. So yeah, that's huge, right. Because you know, the communication and the comradery and the medical and surgical stuff, kind of all got shut down and shut out.

Dr. Thomas (43:20):

Um, and we really had a function on, you know, a little bit more reactivity, some proactivity, um, and getting kind of through the COVID process and redoing the client experience. And just one roll back to that. Uh, amazing. I still remember that I'm gonna roll back, but, um, you know, when we talked about client connectivity, make sure you check in to like, um, you know, we have never had such a high Facebook messenger reach out, but when they can't get you on phones, remember they're going to look for other outlets. And so, you know, and if, you know, so if you can at least have someone, whether it's your practice manager or someone at the practice shooting, some answers back to people on those outlets. Um, we also found we had a re actually like set up on a daily, like chuckle, um, at the site level. And then also in our own social media, you know, know person at the hub.

Zack G. (44:03):

Yeah. We typically, I recommend triple coverage on those messaging channels. Um, you know, as a, as a, just kind of a prescription from my end, you know, if you're going to have that there and it's live, it better be connected to three people's phones because one's going to be busy, one's going to be at lunch and the other person's going to be able to answer.

Dr. Thomas (44:22):

Yup. Yeah. Abs I like that actually. I'm, I'm going to take that. I appreciate sharing. So

Zack G. (44:27):

As a winner,

Dr. Thomas (44:29):

I like it. That's my, so, uh, yeah, no, we have 300% on, on Facebook messenger applies. So I think it was really important that, you know, letting people know right. If they can't get on the phone, just answer them on that messenger. And that made a huge difference. People are so thankful. So now they're starting to use that as the avenue for like, Hey, can I get a refill? Cause you know, they don't want to call on the phone away. So, you know, we're rethinking that piece, but that's worked out okay too.

Zack G. (44:52):

Yeah. So now, I mean maybe tell me, what do you think some permanent behavioral changes are that you make that might not go away?

Dr. Thomas (45:02):

Uh, for us anyways, we will have, you know, curbside that's going to be permanent. So cause there's some clients, I think that appreciate that, Hey, in the future we can analyze if their wait time perception is less. If they get to hang out in their car, doing what they want to do. Um, I think that'll be permanent. I think the changes to the team, like for us, you know, empowering a staff column, um, that's not going to go away. Um, so, and you know, I think those are probably the biggest things I think that are absolutely static, right? There's still going to be a curbside service and the empowerment and the redirection of how we allocate the team are going to be permanent. Um, and I also think some of the efficiency pieces we learned will be permanent, right. We we've really tried to work getting an expediter, um, to kind of expedite flow and that focus I think will stay. So, um, and I think the technology we mentioned tack, right. I think that that will stick. I think it'll, you know, to the degree that the practice is engaged in that, but I think to some degree that'll also be a permanent change. Yeah.

Zack G. (45:57):

I agree. I agree with all that stuff. I think we did a lot of curbside, um, setups, if you will. We had always done, I've always been an advocate of getting rid of clipboards. So we'd always been on my side pushing for, um, you know, tablet-based check-in if you will, but then all we did was shift that to touch-free by making those login screen, you know, those check-in screens available through everybody's phones. So it was actually pretty easy to pivot on that for some of our practices. One, interestingly enough, have been doing curbside for six years.

Dr. Thomas (46:37):

Wow,

Zack G. (46:38):

Awesome. Right. So this is some stuff you don't like. This is like the why it's so fun to go around and talk to everybody because there are vet owners who'd been doing and here's the reason why, cause you go, well, why would somebody even do cover side? This person worked in a commuter, um, you know, predominantly commuter sort of suburban area of two major city back east. And most of her core clients worked, you know, in the city and would need to drop their animals off before they headed out to work. So in order to deal with that sort of inflow in the morning, that was all very abrupt. They did it curbside and had to figured out how to do that for years. And then at the end of the day that people will pick their animals up. So they already had this whole client book that was very accustomed to dropping off animals in the morning and picking them up in.

Dr. Thomas (47:29):

Perfect.

Zack G. (47:30):

It goes to show that a lot of this stuff for some of us was a huge cultural and operational shift, but that some of the stuff actually, as much as we want to push back on it, like, oh, curbside is so impersonal, curbside, the other slant. The other lens on that is it's actually a huge convenience piece that people are having a very busy day and they still want to make sure that their animal gets seen and they, you know, they can't do the 11 o'clock drop off because they're at work. So they want to do a 7:30 AM drop off and not all happens curbside. So yeah, a lot of stories out there on all that, but I agree with you. I think, I think curbside is here to stay and you can see it, even in the restaurant business there, they're going to have some what I would call after effects. It looks like that'll never go away, you know, online ordering and all the other stuff. Let me ask you one last question and then we're going to wrap it up. Well, there's kind of two, what if you're, if you were back in your house as a single exotic practitioner, as a young man and you're, but you had today's circumstances, what would be the P what would be the advice that you'd give that young man where you're headed now for the next, say 24 months coming out of this? Fantastic.

Dr. Thomas (48:44):

So I think that for me, I would have told that young man to, you know, focus more on the, you know, the communication, the self-awareness and, um, learning those skill sets. Cause I think those are powerful, right? So, and I think that's what we're going to need in the next 24 months. So if I had to, you know, talk to the younger me, right. Knowing what I do now, I would have actually focused on those stronger on communication, skill sets, um, you know, empathy and, you know, uh, emotional effect labeling, like I would've liked to learn all of that younger so that it would have been more powerful throughout that time. And I think that those skill sets have served us well in COVID. I think they will serve us very well in the 24 months. Coming ahead,

Zack G. (49:23):

I a hundred percent agree. I think that's, you know, when we, our biggest, and I'll just reflect on that, Tom and we come in to help lift a practices, growth, the lowest hanging fruit typically for us is communication issues. We almost always can get a five, 10% immediate lift by enhancing communication. And most people don't know that, but it's actually there. And you know what it is, it's just really operational sort of obstacles. They're like, we don't know how to write an email. We can't write 10 emails. We haven't sent anybody in email in 60 days, you know, stuff like that. And I, you know, and I'm like, well, wait a second, you gotta have stuff going out every two or three days, you know, to be present in these people's lives that you're providing care for. So even just that small sort of practical stuff, you know, I think resonates with what you say, you know, just for boots on the ground, taking action in the direction of communication. There's never going to be a negative. There's never a downside with that. The worst thing that could happen is you could be annoying, be true.

Dr. Thomas (50:28):

Right. So communication. Yeah. I think self realization. Right? Like, and learning about people. Right. And so if you know, you know, the year of blue guy, right. And you're a feeling guy and I asked you how you feel about it, you know, I asked you about your kids and your dog, when you come in this, what you want to hear. Right. So if you're, if you're a gold character, right. You're like, Hey, excuse me, sir. But you're one minute late and I've got stuff to do. So could we get to the point? So I think that kind of learning about each other within a team helps them feel, you know, better listened, better, heard, better understanding. And like when I go in and have done some consulting and, and talk to teams, you know, that's some of the funnest stuff, right? Like, you know, coloring them out and finding out, you know, you've got one person that's a feeling person and everyone else is detail oriented and thinkers.

Dr. Thomas (51:12):

I'm like, well, there you go. Right. Let's get it. We gotta, yeah. That's why we don't feel included. So I think it's just more about understanding, you know, people's driving values, you know, I I've heard as temperament, whatever you want to do. Right. Like everyone hated this training because they felt like, you know, judge, like, you know, find the one that works for you. Right. Like, you know, make it, make it about colors, but make it about something where we all know, we communicate different. We have different drivers, we have different beliefs. And you know, if you can really resonate with a person on their level, um, give up control, let them have it. It's okay. You know, they feel listened to heard and they feel in control and you'd be surprised cause they'll drive the car. Right. And so I think that that's really where, you know, I think that's where it is in team management. Right. So is, is helping people get to those points instead of living in preconceived judgment generalizations.

Zack G. (51:57):

Well, Dr. Tom, I want to thank you. Like you shared not just an awesome backstory, but a lot of current really valuable information. And I just want to thank you for being on the show. It was awesome to, you know, riff with you here today and learn more about you and, and everything going on. So everybody that's listening, we can't wait to have you on the next episode of practice, somatic and say, thanks to Dr. Tom, if you guys are in Southeastern Michigan area, of course go find his practices. And you've heard everything about how he runs the place. So they're fantastic. And we'll see you on the,

Dr. Thomas (52:30):

I appreciate it. It's so I learned from you too, and anyone want to come up or happy all the time, right? So tooth positive.

Intro (52:38):

Thank you for listening to this episode of practice. So Matt subscribe to the podcast. So you don't miss any future episodes for additional help and resources for your practice. Visit Zack greenfield.com to connect with Zach. Visit Zach greenfield.com/z G.